Beta 3 RC1

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Re: Beta 3 RC1

Postby SeeDs » 11 Feb 2013, 12:21

My Feedback about Elite B3 :

0) Nice ! Just nice :D

1) It's a good idea, after trying, I think we can put it in the Beta2 official mod in attack for the railgun and in defense for the rockets, it's adding a little bit of speed in the game and in the gameplay.

2) The textures are really awesome, in my opinion the game is way more nicer than the Beta2

3) The HUD is getting better and better !

4) Realm is a great mod, didn't play that much but really interresting.

5) It's the only point that I'm not agree with Nadeo here. After trying this new thing out, during 3 hours on FFA, the elite mod was a little bit messy, I mean it was nucleus at pole, which is impossible to capture it because of the fast-reload, the nucleus is the weapon the easier to play with, and everyone can touch someone now pretty easily, and that's in my opinion not the aim of a competition game. The old Beta2 was not prefect, we can add something else, but the defenders who can choose rail or nucleus kill the game himself. After 3 hours, I left for beta2 gameplay.

6) Didn't try it.

7) Wall jumps are better imo, they works even fine now ! I love wall jumping everywhere now ! :p

8,9,10) Nice changes, I don't really care about autobalance in FFA because the ranking doesn't mean anything at all.

11) The Sound is still not good as others games, I would say it's sometimes not enough precise and you ear someone behind you but he's just on the right for exemple.

12) That's a good thing, annoying sometimes, but you can add to favorite servers more easily now !

13) Didn't see that updates in game

14, 15) Editors, I don't open editor because i'm pretty bad about doing maps ! :D

16) Good idea aswell !

17) My friends will be really happy imo :D

18) Ranking means anything ! Keep saying that ! :D

And i'm looking forward for the next update about the open beta and the Elite Matchmaking ! :D

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Re: Beta 3 RC1

Postby SiH13 » 11 Feb 2013, 14:00

0: Finally the game runs smooth on high graphics and I can see the graphics better :)

1: I like it! It rewards you for hitting someone :)

2: OMAGAD, it looks so beautiful. The light in the sky and sun creeping through the clouds in the menu is just so beautiful <3

3: Grat, great! Not too much and not too little :D

4: I havent tried it, but new modes are always welcome

5: Even through I dont play it a lot and as already by some before its easy for the defenders to camp at the pole. If the attackers concentrate on one player, its easy for the 2 others to get a hit on him.

6: I joined a round to show some friends to show how the game was like and I was more stunned than them because of how this mode changed by just all the other new features. I like the point-score at the spawn

7: Gameflow feels more easier to control :)

8: Finally ! :D

9: Great!

10: Not enabled music yet, i'll have a further playthrough today.

11: Im not sure if I heard any difference, but the best sound is the one you dont realize :) (like it feels natural)

12: Great feature, I think some players dont go into the menu to add it as fave. This is a good place to have it as its not like "FAVORITE THIS SERVER DAMMIT" but more like a reminder where you dont need to close any windows to get rid of it

13: Amazing block! Can also keep players from getting spawnkilled :)

14: Good!

15: More trees is just what I missed while mapping for my video. The skinning is great for making the scenery look better and not just trees spammed around. Trackmania should also have this.
Btw: I noticed that the trees were 2D. If I remember correctly they were 3D earlier, what happened? My settings are on max and 3D decals are on.

16: Cool! I have being kicked while afk on servers that doesnt have that feature with /afk

17: ^_^

18: Im best!!!!!!

Additional: The textures looks even better! I liked the ones in Alpha better than the ones in Beta, but now they are even better :) The grass growing through the bricks and blocks makes this game soooo beautiful. You have really overdone yourself!

Menu: I like the new look witht he lights on the titles and buttons selected. But the news-feed (latest activity) text is too shiny. As mentioned, the background camera is so fantastic. I'm loving the sun coming through the clouds :)
The text in maniahome is too large and the send message button is underneath the address-bar.

I thought you didnt have much else to offer but I realized that the first versions was more to the core by gameplay and blocks and now that its near-perfect you can concentrate on the looks and compability. You gave the game the thing I "knew I missed, but couldnt figure out wha". Since the real release is near I hope you countinue this direction and make the final fixes and bugfixes. If you do this the game would be perfect and considered a successful game from your part. Then its really up to your marketing team and us to get it out to the players.
Right now the marketing around the game has felt very small. Big gaming news doesnt cover the game, I have never seen an advert anywhere thats not from people that is Shootmania related and so on.
IGN has the IPL game covering the game and supporting it, but IGN daily fix and IGN.com did not even mention that the game's release was postponed???????
I feel a little sad because its not getting so much attention.

When the open beta comes, please.. please get more marketing. I am sure the marketing guys are working hard but I just want more people to play this. Both for your sake and for the few people playing online now that wants a wider choise of servers to go to. What happened with Heroes? I never got the chance to play it and the servers are always empty
Last edited by SiH13 on 11 Feb 2013, 14:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Beta 3 RC1

Postby lekkk » 11 Feb 2013, 14:18

This is my feedback in english. Don't hesitate to spot me any problems or suggestions.


-Only one defender can take other weapon than rocket launcher.
-Keep the wallhack against the defender who have taken the raigun (even if it is strange to have it in esport game, i don't have ideas in order to do differently).
-Defender have the choice to take other weapon than rocket launcher only if his team have won 3 rounds consecutively (3 for unlock nucleus and 5 for unlock railgun like killstreak).
-Time of reloading must be increased for defender who have taken other weapon than rocket launcher.
-Nucleus must be nerfed because it hits without aim enemy.
-Time of reloading must be increased for railpad.
-Add option in the manu allowing users to class servers about number of players.
-Chat windows must be on "pop-up" mode because it is useless to stay it opened during hours.
-Stanima is disabled for defender who use laser.

Thanks for reading.
Last edited by lekkk on 11 Feb 2013, 18:05, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Beta 3 RC1

Postby utzutz » 11 Feb 2013, 15:24

@utzutz
guess nadeo will not go back to old elite mode! so plz stop writing this sensless comments. its better to help with constructiv comments to go further, we all know that the old elite mode was very good balanced and some cant understand why nadeo makes this changes, but the changes are here and we have to help to turn it in to better ones. :thumbsup:

lg maiden


Not sure 'bout that as this is the Beta forum and we're the people to guide the way.

Since the infamous Natural Selection 2 alpha-gold roadmap, every development team should know they "must" heavily focus on the community, which is examining the game in early stages. If you hit such a lucky, almost balanced, punch as the Elite Mode has been, then watch yourself to not overindulge in changes !

Btw. the community already speaks volumes with not acknowledging the b3 Elite mode viá simply not playing it nor giving attention to it !

Whilst, I've to admit, this comunity is pretty objective to changes and knows to express good points, but b3 elite is a fail !
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Re: Beta 3 RC1

Postby Hylis » 11 Feb 2013, 15:33

the best way to prove your point, is to try to improve the mode after having tested it with scientific reports, such as attack win ratio of attacker against 3 defense at laser, while specifying maps

of course we will take the best mode in the end, but we will do this decision with players that are trying to improve things, not the ones that prove themselves to be too conservative or negatives, or trying to give lessons on how to develop games or talk with players. we are here to do the beta, the game will be released after. Thanks
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Re: Beta 3 RC1

Postby utzutz » 11 Feb 2013, 15:58

the best way to prove your point, is to try to improve the mode after having tested it with scientific reports, such as attack win ratio of attacker against 3 defense at laser, while specifying maps

Of course, a simple empirical analysis is the best way to go as that's what shows a trend without personal influence though... but I doubt that "I" as user has the ability to read and record every b3E game, whilst it shouldn't be that of a challenge to add a variable stored in a database for you. :P

Which would be nice to have anyways a kind of "balancing analysis" or "flow analytics" for every mod-maker, hence the crafter knows what to change or where to change something.

of course we will take the best mode in the end, but we will do this decision with players that are trying to improve things, not the ones that prove themselves to be too conservative or negatives, or trying to give lessons on how to develop games or talk with players. we are here to do the beta, the game will be released after. Thanks

Whoo, slow down :D , I'm not the first one talking 'bout this point, neither I'm not even more detailed than others have been... do not make me the public enemy #1 just because I state the consequences instead of just saying "It's broken" like the others.

Btw a user is a user, there is no difference, if you already start stating about valuing people in public... you should really edit that assertion !
People are allowed to put emphasize on emotions and personal opinions and every opinion is based in a profound fact, even though it seems radical to one or another.


In the end, an inside analytics system isn't hard to code yet it'll pay-off for both Shootmania, for inside data -> marketing, as also mod-makers. Where can I officially suggest this ? :D
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Re: Beta 3 RC1

Postby MuNgLo » 11 Feb 2013, 16:21

Hylis wrote:the best way to prove your point, is to try to improve the mode after having tested it with scientific reports, such as attack win ratio of attacker against 3 defense at laser, while specifying maps

of course we will take the best mode in the end, but we will do this decision with players that are trying to improve things, not the ones that prove themselves to be too conservative or negatives, or trying to give lessons on how to develop games or talk with players. we are here to do the beta, the game will be released after. Thanks


Well doing calculations over how the spread is on attacker success against 3 defenders with different weapon setups might prove interesting and point to a balanced game but it says absolutely nothing about the entertainment value of it.
And while asking for people that want to improve the game you must also realize that speaking up when changes to a gamemode is negative and/or in the wrong direction. I wonder how an update in TM which would slow it down to maxspeed 50km/h. Sure the argument can be made its balanced and all that but it sure as hell wouldn't be fun. People would then speak up against it. Just as has happened now about Elite Beta3.
The way the changes impact the gamemode changes the foundation of how it is played. For better or worse there will be people liking both sides but it will not be the same gamemode anymore. And that's the problem.
Forking it to a new title and keep polishing on the old beta 2 would make sense.

On a side note. If there is any statistics reported for what mode servers are running in that you at Nadeo can look at. Those numbers would probably speak volumes. Afterall most active Elite players want to play competitively and most(all?) competitions are running beta2 so far. That makes it so teams have to prioritize what they do with their gaming time. Many will not even bother trying beta3 and as a result many server will not run beta 3.

But I did have a thought when comparing b2 and b3. Introducing the 50% reload for rockethits on defenders when they are in capturearea on goal might be a nice balancing of the old b2 mode. Making for those attacker with vs 1 solo defender 30s into a turn more interesting.
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Re: Beta 3 RC1

Postby Hylis » 11 Feb 2013, 16:44

SiH, you will see the game getting more and more popular quickly, and then be well covered by news sites that would be more likely to make news about what their readers are interested about.

MuNgLo wrote: might prove interesting and point to a balanced game but it says absolutely nothing about the entertainment value of it.


I am happy that you make the clear distinction, but many players talk either of interest or balance in the same comments.

See what I wrote yesterday

Hylis wrote:if things are unbalanced, then speak about the balance (there are many things that can be done for this) if maps are not adapted, then speak about the maps (you know there is a map editor that ease modifications for tests) if the mode is not interesting for some reasons, speak about it. And for this last point, try to take into account many things, such as diversity, spectating, fun, skill, uncertainty etc.


And for about your side note:

MuNgLo wrote: On a side note. If there is any statistics reported for what mode servers are running in that you at Nadeo can look at. Those numbers would probably speak volumes. Afterall most active Elite players want to play competitively and most(all?) competitions are running beta2 so far. That makes it so teams have to prioritize what they do with their gaming time. Many will not even bother trying beta3 and as a result many server will not run beta 3.


On a side note. I am quite sure that if we launch the open beta with the beta 3 mode in front, it will be more played on a statistic based, even long time after the launch. And if we then change it by removing weapons, people would look at going back on the previous one and would use the exact same argument that you are serving me. And even more if they have trained and play on maps that are made more for their previous rules.
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Re: Beta 3 RC1

Postby MuNgLo » 11 Feb 2013, 17:49

Hylis wrote:On a side note. I am quite sure that if we launch the open beta with the beta 3 mode in front, it will be more played on a statistic based, even long time after the launch. And if we then change it by removing weapons, people would look at going back on the previous one and would use the exact same argument that you are serving me. And even more if they have trained and play on maps that are made more for their previous rules.


Yes. Which is an excellent argument why not to have two different gamemodes under same name. Because that's pretty much what we are talking about. To make it even worse the players of beta2 will certainly feel like secondclass players and thrown on the dump even before launch. Maybe even feel it like there is no point playing an possibly old, outdated and unkept gamemode. Since while Elite gamemodescript is under lock and key there is a possibility of you at Nadeo to just remove the beta2 version.
Not that I think you will but still :D

And from what I can see and hear right now I can only draw the conclusion that most serious players, as in those that play in teams and so on will stay on beta2.
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Re: Beta 3 RC1

Postby pksens » 11 Feb 2013, 17:59

I think the new walljumping system is worse. The previous one was interesting with the things you can achieve with a bit of nuance and skill, the new one is simply limiting. Yes it's easier for the general people to pull off easy wall jumps but is that exactly what you are after? Everyone to have the same basic limited movement skill? Next I suspect you'll adjust the variable jumping to make it easier for the double jump bunnies..
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