Will TrackMania(and TMX) survive.

[dejamo42]

Started this thread because there is a similar one already running and I don't want to appear to be highjacking that thread, but a few points in it piqued my interest, so here goes.

quote: someone// Have you asked Nadeo ? ( I am sure you have, but I ask anyway... ) I mean TMX is probably the single most important cornerstone of our community. If we have to shut down and nobody can exchange their tracks any more, I think the game will die pretty fast.

Interesting point but for me the online game/scene was always what mattered most, I mean no disrespect to TMX though, it was just never that important to me personally and I speak as a long time TM addict.

It looks like TM2 is dead anyway...

Couldn't agree more, enough said...

If MX didn't exist, I probably wouldn't be playing this game at all. And without TMX, I would have quit TMUF long ago.

Again I don't understand this, is the online game not the most important aspect of TM ?

To me the TM universe is far bigger than an arcade racing game: it's a platform that fosters a wide variety of creativity. For many, that's building tracks or skins or movies or models or ManiaLinks or whatever. For me and others, it's programming server controllers and other tools, and building/maintaining websites. I don't do that because I expect anything back for it, but because it's fun in and of itself, and rewarding to share.

So yes, the racing is very important (and I don't have any problems with it myself), so hopefully many improvements will be made over the next year or two, but meanwhile there are also enough other things to do in this community. That's why I'm sticking around -- maybe you can too by finding something in the aforementioned areas.

I can see some of your points here, I've had hundreds of maps that were played online (not on TMX though), I've made mods etc. but without the racing, surely we might just as well be using a fancy graphics program?


To explain where I'm coming from, here's a brief trot through my history with TM.
Discovered the game Sep '07, played a ridicoulous number of hours every day for months and then (with a mate, whom I also got addicted to TM) began setting up our own servers, gave up for awhile when the new one, United or Forever or whatever (the names always confused me) came out, until we worked out that we could turn that respawn abortion off on our rounds servers. Set up forums, websites, more servers (Coast and Mixed Environmeant stuff etc.) a clan (of sorts) and had great fun running it all until Nadeo fusked us all over with the Freezone which was when we both began to lose our passion for the game. Bought the new one while it ws still in beta and imo, it sucks, the drive is so far removed from what we all loved about TM, that it's not even funny, as for the editor and it's lack of blocks, I despair!
I will most likely not even bother looking at Valley if/when it's released.
I still play some TMUF but that will surely and slowly die and with Canyon apparently not being the roaring success that Nadeo hoped or expected(?), it just looks like the whole TM universe is going down the tubes, pity, it was probably my favourite computer game of all time, but everything has to end..

[eyebo]

If MX didn't exist, I probably wouldn't be playing this game at all. And without TMX, I would have quit TMUF long ago.

Again I don't understand this, is the online game not the most important aspect of TM ?

I guess maybe it is for some people.
But everything is connected.
Many online servers get their maps directly from MX.
So even if a user never goes to MX, they benefit from it's existence in their online experience.

Without a central hub to share tracks, whether it's MX or some other site... the community would be compartmentalized into much smaller groups.

Much of the fun I have is in trying new tracks regularly. And without a central site to get all the newly released tracks... and without a place to share my own creations... I personally wouldn't see much point playing for an extended period of time.

For me the most important thing is the editor, the community; both online and offline, and the diverse array of tracks to play. I get those on MX. I also love the ability to make screenshots, do custom MT with cool cameras... and make videos and post them online. For other people it may be other things. To say online is the most important thing in TM would be to to shoehorn everyone into the same mold. The TM userbase is far more complex than that.

It's interesting, I find myself playing a lot more offline than I did in TM1. I feel I can focus more on the tracks, giving feedback, and hunting a time. Online I get very distracted chatting with people.

But this switch to offline has less to do with Canyon, and more to do with a change in my own habits.

A lot of people are enjoying online competitions though. This is no different than the past, but it's still going on. ESL, ESWC, and ET all run competitions. I took part in the HillClimb1 (HC1) competition put on by ET a couple weeks ago. That was a lot of fun! There's also the official MX Knockout held twice every weekend at 10:00 GMT and 22:00 GMT on Saturday. It's held on the MX Knockout server. Usually 20 to 30 people play it, and it lasts a couple hours. It's mostly a lot of the same familiar faces who gather there each weekend. So that's a lot of fun.

About your other comments. I don't see the game going downhill. I actually find it more fun now than I did the first time I played it back in August.

As Xymph said in his post. There's a lot to do in the TM-verse. Online might be the focus of some people, while others may enjoy video production, or making manialinks, or other coding projects.

I've seen this "tm is dying" mentality around the forums quite a bit lately. It's unhealthy, unproductive, and it couldn't be further from the truth.

The game (maniaplanet) is starting seemingly slowly from our perspective (having seen TMF in its glory days). But this is how Nadeo wanted it to be. It will pick up pace and players as it rolls along... as more environments are added... as more genres are added. Some may take a break until the next environment is added, especially if Canyon isn't their particular brand of fun. But this isn't anything unexpected. Why should we be surprised when it's not a surprise to Nadeo?

I think much of the negativity about the game is based on unmet expectations. A lot of users expected something entirely new and different (or else they wanted something very very close to Stadium physics and block structures), and TM2 ended up feeling like TM1.5 to them because, on the surface, it really doesn't bring much new to the table. It feels like the 8th environment.

But to be honest, that's all I ever wanted. And maybe that's why I'm not personally disappointed. I like the fact that the game is solidly based in the past. It made Canyon very easy to pick up. I knew how just about everything worked already, while I still had to learn to drive with the new physics and blocks... and I still struggle to take some block combinations quickly... especially on the cliffside roads.

You say the blocks don't offer enough diversity. Of course more diversity in how blocks can be used is always good! But Canyon offers plenty of diversity. If you don't think there's enough diversity, you may not have played with the editor enough... or tried enough tracks. Or perhaps you've played on servers where the server host didn't pick a good selection of tracks.

One of the things that has helped give the most diversity is tm2unlimiter, a third party tool that lets you place blocks wherever you want... right inside the editor. I can't underestimate how important it is to making really cool tracks. It's possible to make great stuff without it, but unlimiter opens up so many more possibilities.

I firmly believe that much of what will make ManiaPlanet great is yet to be revealed. For now, Canyon does feel a bit like the "8th environment", but it's an amazing addition and I'll enjoy it up until the next environment is released.. and beyond.

--

But you mention TMX/MX in the topic. I really hope TMX and MX survive the next few years. I have a feeling these sites are too important to the community to let them go. But I also think the community is a bit puzzled at why Nadeo or Ubisoft doesn't support them monetarily. I understand they have to put their money into what they think is important... but track sharing is at the very heart of this game. If they're not going to do track sharing themselves, it seems they should help support those who are doing that job for them... and contributing to the success of their game.

Of course, where does that end? There's a lot of community sites that contribute to the success of the game; ManiaPark, ManiaCreative, etc.

It's a tough call for them though. Apparently they were already forced to make the decision to pull funding from these sites in the past, because of the lack of advertising revenue that was also pulled out from under them.

I trust things will turn out for the best in the long run.