mpbc 0.1.9.1: custom block creation tool

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Re: mpbc: custom block creation tool

Postby CoastKid » 16 Apr 2012, 12:56

SoraTWE wrote:I dont get for what we need the Source Code and I also dont know where to put the textures..
plz help :oops:

As i understand, textures must be in same folder as xml,3ds and mpbc.exe file.

db89 wrote:When I start mpbc.exe I always get this error: "Cannot find entry point RegGetValueW of library procedure on dynamic link ADVAPI32.dll" :?

Try to google and download that library and place in same folder as mpbc.exe or in C:\Windows\SysWOW64\ (i have found it here on my machine, i have win7 64bit)
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Re: mpbc: custom block creation tool

Postby Ripbox » 16 Apr 2012, 15:52

I am supprised Nadeo have not put a stop to this because while they dont control the blocks, theoretically speaking if someone finds the time to create a whole new set of block then it becomes a whole new environment in a way.
And if someone as smart as mpbc then creates the required remaining GBX file then it officially becomes a 100% new but unofficial environment which in part is bad news for Nadeo who had planed to sell an new environment to us in 6month increments (which BTW hasn't happened yet)

Dont get me wrong here, i do like what mpbc has done and can wait to see the results i just question because of an incident that happened a while back in TMS with a certain Gen!us and a 3D manipulation tool and if i recall well this person had the book almost thrown it him.
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Re: mpbc: custom block creation tool

Postby seeba » 16 Apr 2012, 15:57

Ripbox wrote:I am supprised Nadeo have not put a stop to this because while they dont control the blocks, theoretically speaking if someone finds the time to create a whole new set of block then it becomes a whole new environment in a way.
And if someone as smart as mpbc then creates the required remaining GBX file then it officially becomes a 100% new but unofficial environment which in part is bad news for Nadeo who had planed to sell an new environment to us in 6month increments (which BTW hasn't happened yet).


I don't see this problem. In my opinion, a environment is defined by much more than only blocks. Blocks add to an environment, but the environment itself is also given by handling, speed, acceleration, etcetera. New blocks are for me just like new combinations of blocks / transitions. Of course I know that they can be much more, however the handling, as mentioned before, will be the same.
Maybe Nadeo thinks the same.
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Re: mpbc: custom block creation tool

Postby arc_ » 16 Apr 2012, 16:10

seeba wrote:Blocks add to an environment, but the environment itself is also given by handling, speed, acceleration, etcetera.

Who said that can't be changed as well? :)

But let's first get custom blocks stable and more complete, there's still lots to do.
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Re: mpbc: custom block creation tool

Postby haenry » 16 Apr 2012, 16:30

Great job! I'll definitely try to play around with it, when I find the time. I can't wait for future improvements :thumbsup:

I see your point, Ripbox.
Remeber, when envimixing was possible in united and many players thought, Nadeo would forbid that. But Hylis just said, that he likes what they have done and that it's interesting, as he had done envimixing few years ago already.

Maybe, Nadeo will skip that official block creation. When they see, that his work is excellent, they might adapt it. why not? (maybe similar to the stuntmode. They don't make an official one, but expect it from the community after MP 2.0 release)
Remeber, trackmania is the game created by nadeo, but filled with life BY the community... ;)
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Re: mpbc: custom block creation tool

Postby Electron » 16 Apr 2012, 17:06

I don't think it's a good idea to make available the source code of mpbc.
I took a quick look in the sources and have found only four files which would allow me very simply to build powerful cheating tools...
I would have not thought that this is so easy using a special library from Microsoft.
...and I am only an amateur developer. So I hope I am wrong.
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Re: mpbc: custom block creation tool

Postby Ripbox » 16 Apr 2012, 17:47

don't get me wrong, i do like this idea and implementation but where is the policing?
In the original discussion thread from when it was announced by Nadeo, it was said that Nadeo would police the the new blocks thus being in control of what was good and bad.
What you have to understand is opens the door to the eventuality of modified GBX files that contain the environmental structures of how the cars and environments work as was the case back in TMS when someone was able to work out how to fettle with the cars maximum speed from 999 to 1000.
This, without the policing just opens the doors wide to the ability to change the environmental physics of wich this then becomes the new environment type i.e cars that can go 100000000 and defy the laws of gravity.... so on and so forth.

I can agree more to the following
haenry wrote:Maybe, Nadeo will skip that official block creation. When they see, that his work is excellent, they might adapt it. why not? (maybe similar to the stuntmode. They don't make an official one, but expect it from the community after MP 2.0 release)
Remeber, trackmania is the game created by nadeo, but filled with life BY the community... ;)


This is most probable and best solution for Nadeo to safeguard their creation, the worst thing that could happen is a mutation that renders the game unplayable and less fun and i feel that without the ability to share the custom blocks threw the current P2P system will break the Multi player servers in such a way that it will cause continual disconnection or the likes when that player does not posses the required blocks

In sort what i am saying is for this kind of feature implementation it has to be policed by an Official appointed body by Nadeo
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Re: mpbc: custom block creation tool

Postby banjee » 16 Apr 2012, 17:58

Ripbox wrote:the worst thing that could happen is a mutation that renders the game unplayable and less fun and i feel that without the ability to share the custom blocks threw the current P2P system will break the Multi player servers in such a way that it will cause continual disconnection or the likes when that player does not posses the required blocks

This is why I think we should eventually have a giant "block expansion kit" available for download. Then we could decide what blocks could go into the kit and we could police the quality of them, but not only that, we could create the standard for all people so that there would not be those server d/c problems.
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Re: mpbc: custom block creation tool

Postby Xymph » 16 Apr 2012, 18:13

Ripbox wrote:And if someone as smart as mpbc then creates [...]

Dont get me wrong here, i do like what mpbc has done [...]

You're mixing up tool and creator names. ;)

Kudos to arc_, btw. :thumbsup:
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Re: mpbc: custom block creation tool

Postby Romain42 » 16 Apr 2012, 18:37

First, gg arc_ for this amazing tool. I don't know if i'll have time to explore it in depth, but it's already a fancy. :twisted:

About the quality issue, i believe indeed that we'll need to filter the blocks that are usable for racing, those ones that might be used for stunts, fun maps, freestyle, and so on, and the ugly blocks that will just be used to make fun of their authors... ( :teub: )

arc_ wrote:These custom blocks don't work like mods or block skins. Maps do not have a dependency on them, and ManiaPlanet does not automatically download the blocks when you open a map that uses them. Players need to manually download the blocks (by visiting the ManiaCode) before they can open the map.

For now, this might be a serious limitation to how this technology can spread. Indeed, if players are kicked when they join a server where this kind of maps are running (or is the effect different, did someone tried?), it will make it hard on public servers, thus only for an aware elite...

arc_ wrote:That said it *is* possible for TM2Unlimiter to manually add a dependency marker when saving the map, by simply looking which blocks in the map are coming from the Personal folder. Currently it would only give you the block name, as mpbc doesn't store any author information in the blocks it creates. But that can change as well for the next version.

Anything that can make the files transferts easier is good. Also, a support from Nadeo might help this very much...

It will be very interesting to see how the community handle the tool and how will look the first creations we'll get...

About eyebo's first page concern, there are probably ways to filter the blocks according to their quality. For instance, if in the future some blocks are creative and smooth enough to be used in league racing, and if the technology is automatic enough to enable players to play those maps without any download or knowledge, we at ET might deliver a pack of allowed blocks for the league maps... It will depend on how many blocks there are to test, since we're not as numerous as an army too, and it might need huge testing to figure if there are bugs or not... I'm not sure yet to share this opinion with my ET mates, thus consider this as a personal point of view at the moment.

Anyway, the door you opened has a great potential and i'm impatient to see how it will evolve. gg !

:pil
Last edited by Romain42 on 16 Apr 2012, 18:40, edited 2 times in total.
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