My playsession constructive critisism - heed it or fail.

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Pschoolofold
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My playsession constructive critisism - heed it or fail.

Post by Pschoolofold » 13 Jul 2012, 00:16

Shootmania, for what I can tell, has been promoting this 'oldschool shooter' vibe. I'm a vet in games like quake, ut, tribes, etc, clanned in them for many moons on several levels -- so this vibe naturally got my attention.

Let me sum up my first experience, then I'll give specific details: Way too much glitzy garbage, way too little streamlined performance.

No matter what anyone says, no matter how many trolls come in to pounce, no matter which developer's feelings get hurt, I'm telling you guys straight that oldschoolers don't appreciate or want glitz, cutesy bells and whistles, excessive navigation, or poor performance. We care only for pure twitch performance and the best way we can create and hone our skills in a new game with little hassle along the way.

Now onto some specifics:

The very first thing I noticed was the horrible UI. It's the first thing presented to a new player - you need to get it right and streamlined. Nothing seemed to 'fit', way too much going on. Many of the options seemed either to not work or not work as expected, and several were mysterious with no explanation. Once I figured out where stuff was at, almost none of it made sense in the way we're used to seeing. I won't go into details, I don't have the time to dissect it all. Suffice to say the UI is very poor - glitzy, way too many menu/submenu/etc. We don't need it, make it simple and effective, ditch the cascading menu popups and go with something simple, use as few screens as possible and have a hover info on anything that may not seem obvious.

Once I got into my first game, the play was subpar to horrible (I joined several games, all same results). Ping wasn't too bad (or good) at 100, but you have serious issues with either the network code or the server. I understand with a game like this you are at the mercy of the server for much of the 'response', but without any way to tweak or dissect the network code (ini or console) we have no idea where the poor performance comes from. You may have a few "official" servers, but they were not obvious and I didn't' feel like scrolling through masses of options in a bad ui.

Framerates were average, character movement and anticipation was not smooth, and both affected the gameplay and enjoyment tremendously. If I cannot tell if I am going to hit someone when I shoot, something is not working properly. Again if you can eliminate the most obvious issues, we can figure out what needs done. Make a true 'bare minimum' for graphics, a way to tweak those 'network connection' choices, and you'll have people knowing what the issues are instead of guessing about them.

I won't go on, I don't want to play the game. There is a nice game lurking there, but its up to you guys to listen to the few voices who actually know what makes the game fit the audience. We have too many options these days, and if you don't get the beta right, you lose. You cant use 'beta' as an excuse - these days a beta has to have higher standards since they are no longer the coveted "I GOT IN" of the past, they are now "Pay and you get access". So when you throw open the gates, you better be prepared to at least make people want to play further or you already lost.

This is going to be my only post until I play again. I won't clarify anything to those who have little comprehension or experience in the industry, more specifically those who can't comprehend or appreciate what I've written. I've made it clear where the issues right now lie, and I've been constructive by giving you not only the problems, but also the solutions.

I do hope you heed them, I'd like to see this type of game succeed.

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Lim3s
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Re: My playsession constructive critisism - heed it or fail.

Post by Lim3s » 13 Jul 2012, 03:47

Finally, someone who doesn't just spit out "the game needs to be Quake" then move on. Thank you for actually putting time into your feedback and making it constructive.

I have to agree 100% with getting rid (or being able to at least) of all the glitz that comes with the game. The biggest thing for a twitch shooter such as this is being able to get the highest performance possible, and as good as the high end of this game is for people who want that, such as video producers, it's not optimal for the players in the slightest. Hopefully further patches will either bring the optimization of the game inline with games of comparable looks (SM honestly looks like Q3A at times, just with a quarter of the framerate).

The netcode does need a bit of work, hopefully LAN play is better than online, but we have no real indication of that.

The menu UI is pretty average, but seeing as it's the same as the one in TrackMania I have a feeling it's here to stay. The ingame UI suffers from the same average-ness but I'm hoping someone will figure out how to mod it to something with a bit less fluff.

kalstrams
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Re: My playsession constructive critisism - heed it or fail.

Post by kalstrams » 13 Jul 2012, 09:53

You don't sound like a quake oldschooler.
Don't have time = don't have proper arguments.
Who are 'we' ? One cannot be appropriate voice of several communities.
Why to bother writing such post,if one has no courage to play further ?

Except bugs, I haven't had any real problem with this game. Interface simply provides what I need (to admit, it should take less place, the layout is fine). Ping problems are very strange.

The only serious problem is netcode glitch. Due to it we have no LAN right now.

Pschoolofold
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Joined: 12 Jul 2012, 23:37

Re: My playsession constructive critisism - heed it or fail.

Post by Pschoolofold » 14 Jul 2012, 21:16

Kals, even tho I said:
I won't clarify anything to those who have little comprehension or experience in the industry, more specifically those who can't comprehend or appreciate what I've written.
I'll go ahead and clarify since I did play the game more. Same results as my original post by the way, but I'll clarify since you asked me to.
You don't sound like a quake oldschooler.
First of all you have no idea what an oldschooler 'sounds' like, you are 19 years old. Even if you were older, it's a silly statement to make. If you're going to open your reply with a silly statement, your words have no weight and you won't be taken seriously on any level.
Don't have time = don't have proper arguments.
Second I don't have time to dissect what other people get paid for. There is no 'argument', the UI is terrible - they can fix it or not, it's their butts on the line. I paid my $15 and made a constructive post to help them, my work is done.
Who are 'we' ? One cannot be appropriate voice of several communities.
Third, "We" is a large majority of oldschool players. I've played with thousands over the years in many capacities - I know what "we" look for in pure twitch skill games. Sure there may be people who like things non-streamlined, glitzy, cutesy and laggy in their esport, but I sure don't know anyone. Do you?
Why to bother writing such post,if one has no courage to play further ?
Fourth, I "bothered writing" because I'm unlike the vast majoirty who would have just written the game off and moved on. I don't get paid to play, and I don't waste time on games if developers don't listen. If I see the devs take the game in the direction it needs to go, I'll use my valuable time helping them. If not, their loss. Plenty of games to choose from. I may be one voice, but I know what's up in this genre -- and I take the time to let people in on what is needed.

kalstrams
Posts: 383
Joined: 06 Jul 2012, 22:56

Re: My playsession constructive critisism - heed it or fail.

Post by kalstrams » 14 Jul 2012, 23:20

Don't judge one of person's age. Even if you bother to look for it.

I have never asked no one to clarify, not even your majesty. You're way to pompous about what you say.

I stated that you do not sound like oldschooler, because post would not be that excessive - it would be just a short statement on what, how, why and whereabouts.

If you're making such a bloat statement that almost feels like 'I'm supreme genius of FPS' being basically no one in the community, no one will take you serious ether.

UI is not terrible, it is different. I have played Q3 for 12 thousand hours approximately, but somehow I just got used to this interface. It is different, it is raw, but it is not terrible. It has to be polished. My only real dislike with the UI goes for the lack of UI scaling.

Neither I do know people who enjoy laggy e-sports, but we have not seen, yet, an e-sports project of the same size that is tried to be run by such a small company in the project that is somewhat different of the most. Also, do not forget, that this is only beta, things yet have time to change. No one will make a project perfect within first few days. If you wish to have an analogue - ShootMania had a tournament before beta. Quake 3 had one too, before the release, on the QuakeCon '99. Next tournament, from the serious ones, took place on QuakeCon 2000, August 3-6. If you the the analogy with Quake 3, than we might see, that 9 months have not passed from the release of ShootMania, because, obviously, ShootMania has not been released yet.

As for the genre, skill based FPS are closing the dead state, because the community becomes tired. For example, CS 1.6 just got dropped out of IEM. Tribes: Ascend - another aspiring FPS of 2012, has went the F2P way, with selling the beneficial stuff for real money. Or, basically, killing itself in terms of e-sport. On the other hand, ShootMania has all the changes, to bring some fresh blood in to the system, but I think, that they need not only suggestions, but also support and encouragement from the community.

Do you wish do continue to waste our time ?

Pschoolofold
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Joined: 12 Jul 2012, 23:37

Re: My playsession constructive critisism - heed it or fail.

Post by Pschoolofold » 15 Jul 2012, 01:43

There's nothing more annoying than trolls.

You don't deserve my attention. I made a constructive post, you come in with your 4 lines of troll food and I throw it back. Make your bed, lie in it. You don't want a reply disputing your 'points', then don't respond in the first place.

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Omnixor
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Re: My playsession constructive critisism - heed it or fail.

Post by Omnixor » 15 Jul 2012, 07:27

Pschoolofold wrote:There's nothing more annoying than trolls.
you're right, so gtfo please.
- staff head of ESL TM²Stadium -

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TMarc
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Re: My playsession constructive critisism - heed it or fail.

Post by TMarc » 15 Jul 2012, 10:15

Keep cool, guys, it's only a game.
And I can't see any troll here, so please stop arguing in this way.
Pschoolofold you also have to accept others opinions, after all you presented yours here for discussion ;)
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TStarGermany
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Re: My playsession constructive critisism - heed it or fail.

Post by TStarGermany » 15 Jul 2012, 14:26

The low FPS will be a neck breaker if the problem is not resolved
http://forum.maniaplanet.com/viewtopic. ... 28&t=12207

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