main weapon thoughts

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codejammer
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Joined: 25 Jul 2012, 12:19

main weapon thoughts

Post by codejammer » 25 Jul 2012, 13:37

So, after putting in some hours, I've come to a realization: the main weapon projectiles are too slow. Now, obviously the whole point is to have a projectile weapon that requires prediction. But here, characters can change direction on a dime, and any moderately skilled opponent moves unpredictably, so the player must largely guess at the target position. The slow projectiles also mean opponents often randomly change course and evade the shot. The result is a combat system with a boat-load of random. This also causes fights to drag on a bit too long, which wouldn't be a problem per se, except that it greatly increases the chances of someone jumping in and killing the players in the middle of the fight. Again, more random stuff. The end result is a weird middle ground: technical shooter in some respects, casual party game in others.
As this is core gameplay, I doubt it can change, but for what it's worth, the Quake3 plasma gun and a few Tribes: Ascend weapons are done well. The projectiles are slow enough to require prediction and skill, but fast enough that the opponent can't easily evade them.
On a side note, the sniper spots seem incredibly powerful: is an insta-kill sniper gun proper amid the slow moving projectiles? It totally makes the main weapon feel like the pea-shooter that it is.

kalstrams
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Re: main weapon thoughts

Post by kalstrams » 25 Jul 2012, 13:42

Rockets are defensive, not offensive.Also, they are quite well balanced in terms of speed. Have you wondered, how thousands of people play with those rockets, and you are the first who finds the truth ?

Rockets, due to their size, speed and colouring, make an optical illusion, that sometimes tricks you within the distance. Moreover, you have 4 projectiles, instead of one, and you have a reload, approximately 2.5 times faster than that of a laser gun.

In addition, bear in mind, that usually there are several rocket wielders against a single laser gun, if we talk about the Elite.

Also, rockets can knock you back, if they hit close enough. Laser gun does not possess such area denial features. You can easily kick someone out of flag stand, for example. Or into the offzone / off the cliff / you name it.

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Froyd
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Re: main weapon thoughts

Post by Froyd » 25 Jul 2012, 14:19

In my opinion, the most important aspect to master the use of rockets in this game is that, while they don't deal splash damage, like in games such as Quake or Tribes, they do pack knockback enough to send your oponent in a predictable trajectory long enough for you to connect a second (and even a third) shot into your opponent. And as you may have already noticed, once your enemy is in the air, they are a far easier target.

As in most games, it is only random if you are not skilled enough, and not only in aiming, but also in controlling space and managing your ammo. For example, if you find yourself in a duel situation and your oponent is randomly dancing in front of you, the maximum of four rockets one can carry at a time in most game modes makes up (not coincidentally) for:
-One shot in the ground, where they are dodging
-One in the direction they are most likely to escape to
-Two parting shots once you get the knockback from either of the first two rockets

As I said, it all comes down to ammo management and controlling space with suppressive fire (or even for some slightly advanced tactics, such as faking being out of rockets).

codejammer
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Re: main weapon thoughts

Post by codejammer » 25 Jul 2012, 15:29

Hmm, I remain unconvinced. Kalstrams, you're mainly talking about Elite, I'm talking about the standard modes (deathmatch, team deatchmatch, royal, battle, etc). As for being the first, what can I say, I'm pretty quick on the critical-thinking draw. Kidding aside, a simple search on google reveals I'm far from the first to make such conclusions.
Froyd, your theoretical method of dealing with an opponent sounds good on paper, but honestly think about the common engagements you've had (not those few really cool ones that made your day): were they anything like that? Or hey, check out some video's on youtube: most fights just don't go down like that. Personally, I often manage a top 3 placing, so I assume I'm above average. Sure I do what I can to best land those shots, but when the opponent can so easily evade the shot, it's only natural that it becomes a toss up. If I'm doing decent and it feels a bit too random to me, how does it comes off to most of the player base?

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Froyd
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Re: main weapon thoughts

Post by Froyd » 25 Jul 2012, 16:49

But isn't perfecting your skill at the game all about landing "those cool shots that made your day" consistently? At least that's my mentality in every FPS I play... and every time I play I seem to be landing more and more of them. To the point that what I described have become my main strategy in open 1v1 duels and I happen to be scoring first or second place in pretty much every game I play (not that the players I usually play against are that great, but still). And I have invested in shootmania only a fraction of the time I have invested in Tribes, for example.

And as a matter of fact, most stuff that I've seen on youtube seem to go pretty much two ways: people getting hit by supressive fire in low visibility areas, or people getting hit the socend they leave the ground, be it by recklessly jumping or getting splashed by another rocket.

kalstrams
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Joined: 06 Jul 2012, 22:56

Re: main weapon thoughts

Post by kalstrams » 25 Jul 2012, 21:51

@ code : try Froyd's tactic. Just keep your enemy in as few directions from you as possible. Said juggling works in Shootmania very well, it just takes a little bit more practice than your usual juggle combo in Tekken.

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ShaunYCash
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Re: main weapon thoughts

Post by ShaunYCash » 25 Jul 2012, 22:44

Got to agree with you I'm a big fans of realistic FPS and the bullets are very slow, some time I wish I could shoot my screen with a 9MM (If I had one loll) to gain a kill. It make me rage a little, I got Mw3 and I prefer from far to stay on MW3 than play SM.
Not annough ammo in that gun is an other pain in the @$$. Well some people like that game some other hate it every one has different gaming style and I respect that my Team seems to like the game I don't like it but I can play up to 1 hours no more.
Talk about Aiming here when there is no aim option on the gun this is a useless comment, it's much more spray and pray to gain kill in this game.
I got my key from a team mate who bough the 5 key package and I own it just to be able to join my team mate.
Drift FTW!
Team name: UbiStrikΞ
I'm: ShaunY

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Omnixor
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Re: main weapon thoughts

Post by Omnixor » 25 Jul 2012, 22:59

comparing SM with CoD? seriously?! :roflol:
- staff head of ESL TM²Stadium -

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ShaunYCash
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Re: main weapon thoughts

Post by ShaunYCash » 25 Jul 2012, 23:24

Omnixor wrote:comparing SM with CoD? seriously?! :roflol:
Why not?? I can compare it to Counter Strike source if you like, this is a little more closer as an arcade gameplay.
Anyway it was not my goal to compare 2 differant game type but this is what I think about Shootmania and it's my personnal vision of this game.
Drift FTW!
Team name: UbiStrikΞ
I'm: ShaunY

codejammer
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Joined: 25 Jul 2012, 12:19

Re: main weapon thoughts

Post by codejammer » 25 Jul 2012, 23:50

ShaunYCash, I agree the shooting here doesn't feel right, but it's also clear you were expecting something that isn't here, nor was ever intended to be. This is a game where every shot is 'supposed' to be a skill shot, and that's my point, and this leads to my response to Froyd. Everyone wants to make those cool shots, but 'I' want to make those shots. The current projectile speed makes it so that when I make a slick shot, it's not as satisfying as it should be because luck is always playing such a notable part. Again, this isn't an issue of poor performance, it's an issue of the gameplay not feeling quite right. Nadeo wants to make a skill-based shooter, but they've gone a little too far with the projectile speed, and it's adding a large amount of random.

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