New gameplay feedbacks since Beta 2

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New gameplay feedbacks since Beta 2

Post by Hylis » 21 Dec 2012, 09:59

I open this topic to collect and discuss them, but we should take the time to try more also.

So I think we should wait for a week in order to collect best gameplay feedback. Some players requires deepness and gives their oppinions in less than 5 hours of play.

Some things are obvious, like the fact that Nucleus are less powerful in Siege. The reload time can be tweeked by players themselves and I invite them to do so at the moment if they need to. The charge of the bouncing rockets is also quite long since we wanted to avoid too much of change by making it too small. It should be a parameter for the script in the future. The rocket vs laser is something that is disturbing and we may have to put an original lifetime of rocket before they can be denied etc.

Some other things are not done yet. For example, the ambiant sounds should have a separate sound balance, which would make hearing some sounds more easily. The jump sound was too loud before, maybe it is to quiet now, but it also takes time and maybe the previous feature to determine it. We know that we still have work to do on the balance.

All in all, we are in a beta and I prefer to be able to test new things than to get stuck without being capable to experiment more extreme evolutions. The progressive jump is a good example of this. There is nearly 40 people working on the project and some feedbacks of longer time of play can also be made by people here since they play since more than a month with it. So, I think that to ask for a week or two to see more clearly the impact is not too much. Our goal is the same as your, to have the best game as possible.

So, I would say that we should jump to conclusion in a more progressive way ^_^

First comment after one week

I have read everything and will continue
first suggestions would be:
1. Test with a lifetime before the rocket or Nucleus becomes de-activable. Before this time, the laser would go through. I would not suggest to remove this feature who brings some sort of diversity and a way to parry an older rocket as well as making a little wall for defender if anticipated for this. I will also change the color of the +0 which was introduced to give more feedback, like asked by various players.

2. Enable to bind a key with full jump. It will not remove some of the negative feedbacks, but there are some positive as well. So, I suggest to try with a key. I can accept this key since it is an optional one and is not required to be used by new players.

3. Some rare comments are against and many are for reducing the time before people can use them. I will reduce time of charge of bouncing rocket by 20%. Better to go slowly and carefully with this.

4. Sound: maybe we will have to make it louder until we can split the ambiance sound and gameplay sound in the volume settings.

5. For the menus, the server browser will improve, with filters, and always display servers of public modes. If a player does not have the title installed, it will prompt him the option to install it at that moment. It is a big work and we will still do big work on it. Making a 2.0 system, where modes can have their own space, own rankings and community while making it not a trouble for players of Storm in general is a big work. I care less about naming vehicle to character than doing that, it is true.

Some gameplay are also done with some future evolution in mind, like the charge laser. So, the balance can be seen only when the various elements and parameters are in place. It takes time to do, test and adjust, and I hope players are happy that we are trying to make the game richer and better thanks to this. I truly believe it is better that we try to do this instead of doing nothing during the beta on these points.

There are other comments here in the topic that I have read and noted down. I was answering on the most common ones.

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Re: New gameplay feedbacks

Post by Alexey85 » 21 Dec 2012, 10:37

Hylis wrote:[...] So, I would say that we should jump to conclusion in a more progressive way ^_^
:lol: :clap:

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Re: New gameplay feedbacks since Beta 2

Post by NJin » 21 Dec 2012, 16:01

the "Respawn Time" is shorter than the old Beta! :thumbsup:
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Re: New gameplay feedbacks since Beta 2

Post by sheaf » 21 Dec 2012, 17:06

I'll repeat what I said in the other thread: I still enjoy the rocket denial with lasers, I think it's good as it is.

I think there should be a minimum jump height, because it is silly to jump 1cm to then sprint. Progressive jump is still a good idea though.

I miss the rail jumping on techno platforms. Given that it seems to be a balance issue depending on maps, maybe it can be added back if the maps take it into account properly.

The sliding is nice, although I have to try it a bit more to give better feedback.

The wall jumping is much improved from Elite Exp, it's a lot more fluid and natural. I'm still getting used to it though.

Thanks for all the improvements. I think it's very important to experiment as much as possible while the game is still in beta; it's the best time to make radical changes for the best that might be impossible to make later once everything has settled down. I'm really glad this is happening, and I think everyone should keep an open mind about such changes.

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Re: New gameplay feedbacks since Beta 2

Post by ph0enX » 21 Dec 2012, 23:45

Rocket denial is a good idea imo. But the way it is now is to much for me. Maybe could balance it so each player got 1(shield) each. Or just find another way that will work with it.

Movement, i like it more now as its more fluit. I think the small jump should be take away. Example; Look at the map collided and try jump up to the "Stone" as an attacker. Not possible. Same with Crossroads jumping up to Hi Mid from being an attacker. Its possible, but hard. The walljumping i dont want to say to much about but right now but i feel that its very hard. Like u cant jump to where u want. The easiest to make a jump is to take some stamina and then jump with ur Left Or Right body on the wall. But if ull like to jump up to something from a wall its very hard cause it just bounces u away from the wall and not the way ull like. Hard to explain, but if u look at ut2004 it has more of a movement u can double jump to where ull like.

I also think the rockets now are too fast. I experienced its harder to aim with the rockets now and i think its the new speed of the rockets causing it.
Rockets also dissapears again wich happend in earlier beta but was fixed, is now back.
Charge of rocket bouncing can indeed be reduced a little, as u said the charge takes a little bit to much time.

Sound 2low as u alr mentioned.
Experienced lower FPS.
Cant join server through buddies.
And last, ive seen missed by 0 mm by attacker 4times.:) Im sure this will get fixed tho.

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Re: New gameplay feedbacks since Beta 2

Post by Talespin » 22 Dec 2012, 09:22

I've already talked to some people about this but I thought I might as well post my thoughts on Beta 2 here too.

Progressive Jumps
As you know, this has a huge impact on Elite just for the fact that you can pretty much instantly sprint with no risk, not to mention the small peak jumps you can do over ledges as a defender to spam. Right off the bat I saw this as an inconvenience to my movement because it felt really sluggish and delayed when I started the jumps. Even full height normal jumps felt like there was almost a wind-up time to them (in Elite Exp the jumps felt normal). Not to mention the full height feels a little shorter than usual as I'm not able to do a lot of the jumps from before.

One possible short-term fix, while still being able to have people test progressive jumps, is to have a separate bind for the normal full height jump and another for the progressive jump. But please look into the short delay before you jump, I'm pretty sure it exists and I'm not crazy. This could have something to do with a player's ping, but it doesn't happen in Elite Exp or pre-patch.

Rails vs Rockets
To be honest, this doesn't bother me that much but it does feel pretty luck based. There are parts of it that are skill based like an attacker blowing up a rocket before it hits him, but most of the time it's just a defender staying alive when he should have died because he was spamming rockets in the attacker's general direction.

I think a minimum range before killing the rockets would help. Nothing too huge, maybe 5 meters from the defender or something like that.

Movement Sounds
I kind of like how mid-to-far range movement is more quiet, especially the jumping. This allows for more freedom of movement as an attacker and being able to actually play mind games with your opponents. However, the sound of really close targets (about 15 meters or less) should be a little louder I think. Right now you can barely hear if someone is right around the corner. I wouldn't increase it by much though.

Charged Rockets
Like I said, a shorter charge up time is probably needed or people won't really bother to use it. Or, you could add something like bouncing rockets staying enabled for 2-3 seconds after you move. It just needs a little boost in some area to make it worth using.

Things I Really Like
I love the new rocket speed, as someone who normally plays with 75-85 the new rocket speed helps make up for some of the ping disadvantage. Even the laser feels more responsive although that could just be me.

Walljumps are also really great, although I haven't been able to test it much because I keep getting frustrated with the progressive jumps and also have to play most of my games in Elite Exp. Once I test it some more I'll probably give better feedback, maybe regarding controlling the wall jumps better or being able to aim where the second jump will send you or something like that.

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Re: New gameplay feedbacks since Beta 2

Post by Timmeh7 » 22 Dec 2012, 18:38

This is not feedback, but I constantly read about "progressive jumps", what does that mean? I played the new beta, but the jumps haven't changed much, or have they?

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Re: New gameplay feedbacks since Beta 2

Post by sheaf » 22 Dec 2012, 21:17

It's the ability to perform smaller jumps by pressing the jump button for a shorter time.

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Re: New gameplay feedbacks since Beta 2

Post by kremsy » 22 Dec 2012, 23:05

I like the gameplay since Beta2 more than the old one. Except walljumps, they make many things too easy and too complicated for map builders.
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Re: New gameplay feedbacks since Beta 2

Post by Akbalder » 23 Dec 2012, 11:34

Rail vs Rocket
I'm very bad with the rail: I rarely succeed a shot. :oops:
But now that the railgun destroys rockets, it's even more rare that I succeed a rail shot.
I just destroy my opponents rockets. :?
I only tested with rail platforms.

Flat wood blocs
The gameplay on flat wood blocs is very strange:
- It isn't possible to move correctly. When I jump by mistake on it, I feel stuck on the bloc with strange movements.
- Pressing right click sometimes makes me crouch and sometimes makes me jump.
These gameplay problems make the flat wooden blocs only usable after a wooden slope (to but sure to have some speed when we go on the flat wood blocs). It reduces the mapping possibilities.
Even if Hylis doesn't like solutions, :roflol:
I think that flat wood blocs should have a normal gameplay and that we should be able to crouch/start to glide only on wooden slopes.

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