New gameplay feedbacks since Beta 2

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spucrl
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Re: New gameplay feedbacks since Beta 2

Post by spucrl » 27 Dec 2012, 01:51

I think the game has made some steps in the right direction but a few were unneeded. The new things I enjoy thoroughly are the new grappling blocks which are a blast in royal. They can also be used in elite maps also if placed well. Rocket speed is very nice also because you can get some delicious triple taps now. Also the addition of Twitch.tv streaming was unexpected but an awesome feature.

The things that need change are the Laser vs Rockets mechanic. With the older rockets it felt like there was a good reward for going into close quarters combat as the attacker in elite. Now when I engage into those fights I feel as if I'm at a disadvantage right away because I know the defender has a random chance to be saved from his rockets. This is especially frustrating if you have a perfect rail on him just to be denied by his random rocket.

Variable jumps are also unneeded as the punishment of the old jumps brought a great and simple depth to the game.

sheaf
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Re: New gameplay feedbacks since Beta 2

Post by sheaf » 27 Dec 2012, 06:14

Here's one suggestion: shooting the white hemisphere you grapple onto should cut the grapple of any enemy currently using it. It prevents the enemy staying grappled for ages without being able to do anything about it if you only have rockets.

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slugish
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Re: New gameplay feedbacks since Beta 2

Post by slugish » 27 Dec 2012, 08:31

All comments are related to Elite

Progressive Jump:
I don't receive any benefit from the addition of "analog" jumping, and at times it can be somewhat annoying. I wouldn't be upset if it were to remain, but I honestly don't see any reason for its existence.

Wall Jump:
I have been anxiously awaiting this addition. One of the weakest aspects of this game has been the oversimplicity of its movement. The wall jump opens up many new options and significantly raises the skill ceiling of the game. While I believe there are still some tweaks to be made, (some jumps seem to fail randomly, and perhaps give more thought to what blocks react to the jump) I love it!

Bouncing Rockets:
Get rid of this... it's silly. Defensive rockets are spammy enough, this just makes it worse.

Grappling
This is kind of a neat feature. For awhile, I'm sure this is going to be overused just because it is a new block and everyone will want to put it in their maps. When used in the correct place, I like it. I do agree with the previous poster, however, that defenders should be able to cancel the grapple effect by shooting the "white orb."

Wooden Slide Planks
This is pretty bizarre. These blocks don't really behave the way I would expect them to. The one way slide action is a little confusing. With that being said, they are kind of neat. I have no problem with them, except as with grappling, they will show up in every elite map published until the "newness" wears off.

Rocket Cancellation:
The positive first... thank you for adding the audio cue and the +0. Having played experimental quite a bit previously, it was very annoying to not know when you cancelled a rocket.
The negative, however, is that this is a terrible feature. This isn't even a feature really, its just blind luck. There is no skill involved here, and there is rarely any intent. The only time I see this used intentionally is when people are trying to show off. It's like the attacker is gimped because a percentage of his shots just randomly fail. The term "rocket" cancellation itself really makes no sense. You should call it laser/rail cancellation because that's the real effect.

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zegodzila
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Re: New gameplay feedbacks since Beta 2

Post by zegodzila » 27 Dec 2012, 09:54

All comments are related to the Royal Mode (90% on my time)

Progressive Jump:
I like getting the running speed faster than before, using a little jump to trigger.
But, i don't like the fact that the old moves aren't possible: Try to get out of the spawn by jumping on the screen and then go back directly. It is very hard now, quite random.


Wall Jump:
I was waiting for it with impatience. This is fun when you control right your moves. I like to pass through arches with the side jump, you will be jumping very high and this could surprise your opponent (he has to aim higher than usual).
But, old maps are obsolete, you can take shortcuts (a lot). And most of all, the moves are very random, especially when you try to wall jump twice on 2 walls in a corner shape. Sometimes you will be able to climp on the top of the corner, sometimes you are ejected far away.

Bouncing Rockets:
Even if you Reduce the waiting time, i think nobody will use it, at least i don't have the reflex.

Grappling
We saw a lot of blocks useless, just here to try the grappling (also in my map..), but if well placed, it can be very fun to take a shortcut with the risks of being airshot.
Also, i don't like the white texture of the "rope".

Wooden Slide Planks
I tried to use them in my maps... If you don't go straight away on it, it is useless, because there is no guide. You just fall from it, if you come from the sides.
I think you need a guide, especially if you want to turn...

Rocket Cancellation:
Like everybody, i find it sometimes "random": you try to kil someone, but i just shot a rocket, you get +0 but not the reflex to shoot again very fast.
But i like the fact, that you can survive against a rocket spam when you are on a laser plateform. You just have to cancel 1 rocket.



What i dislike most in the B2, is the rocket speed that has increased significantly. I'd like to anticipate rather than spamm someone quite far.
Ingame nickname: Franz

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Hylis
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Re: New gameplay feedbacks since Beta 2

Post by Hylis » 27 Dec 2012, 10:02

I have read everything and will continue

but on top of my head, my first suggestions would be:
1. Test with a lifetime before the rocket or Nucleus becomes de-activable. Before this time, the laser would go through. I would not suggest to remove this feature who brings some sort of diversity and a way to parry an older rocket as well as making a little wall for defender if anticipated for this. I will also change the color of the +0 which was introduced to give more feedback, like asked by various players.

2. Enable to bind a key with full jump. It will not remove some of the negative feedbacks, but there are some positive as well. So, I suggest to try with a key. I can accept this key since it is an optional one and is not required to be used by new players.

3. Some rare comments are against and many are for reducing the time before people can use them. I will reduce time of charge of bouncing rocket by 20%. Better to go slowly and carefully with this.

4. Sound: maybe we will have to make it louder until we can split the ambiance sound and gameplay sound in the volume settings.

5. For the menus, the server browser will improve, with filters, and always display servers of public modes. If a player does not have the title installed, it will prompt him the option to install it at that moment. It is a big work and we will still do big work on it. Making a 2.0 system, where modes can have their own space, own rankings and community while making it not a trouble for players of Storm in general is a big work. I care less about naming vehicle to character than doing that, it is true.

Some gameplay are also done with some future evolution in mind, like the charge laser. So, the balance can be seen only when the various elements and parameters are in place. It takes time to do, test and adjust, and I hope players are happy that we are trying to make the game richer and better thanks to this. I truly believe it is better that we try to do this instead of doing nothing during the beta on these points.

There are other comments here in the topic that I have read and noted down. I was answering on the most common ones.

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Hylis
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Re: New gameplay feedbacks since Beta 2

Post by Hylis » 27 Dec 2012, 10:37

kriouf wrote:We have lost a match cup 10 min ago because on a very important attack my mate killed the last defenser, get the +1 and the rocket killed him after and lost the round.
When it happens, they are handled in the right order, but the interface display the hits on both side since elimination is decided after. So, it is probably an interface issue more than the game itself, like we said before. The rocket eliminated him before but you had the message after. We really would like to remove this side effect, of course, since it creates frustrations, even if the match was probably nice if it ended up to some milliseconds of difference.

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Talespin
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Re: New gameplay feedbacks since Beta 2

Post by Talespin » 27 Dec 2012, 11:20

Thanks for keeping us updated, if you plan to add in those changes here's a couple things to keep an eye on:

Progressive jumps: An additional keybind for full height jumps will solve one of the more prominent issues at the moment, but in the long term the most important influence it will have on the game is letting players be able to start sprints without risk and defenders being able to hide behind walls and peek with the smaller jumps. Just please don't consider the separate keybind for a full height jump as a fix, but more of an alternative while progressive jumps are still continued to be tested. It may be necessary to remove progressive jumping entirely if the balance of the game is effected too much.

Also, I haven't heard anything about fixing the small delay at the start of the jumps. I've talked to a lot of others who are experiencing the same thing so it's definitely different from the previous beta versions. This has a bigger impact than you would think on a lot of player's movement and should definitely be looked in to. It also seems to be impossible to get the full jump height from the previous beta versions as well, I haven't been able to climb up certain walls or tree's with a single jump like I was previously.

+0's: This need's a lot of work for sure. A delayed time or distance on the rockets before they become destructible seems like the most obvious fix for now, but that will need to be tested too. Also, instead of just changing the color of the +0 you might want to change it to an X or remove any text entirely, the sound effect makes it pretty noticeable by itself.

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Kraguesh
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Re: New gameplay feedbacks since Beta 2

Post by Kraguesh » 27 Dec 2012, 15:54

I would add something, lags have to be fixed please when we rail a defenser :D


edit : ok, nothing :D http://forum.maniaplanet.com/viewtopic. ... 28&t=15278

edit2 : I saw a good idea of Talespin. If you don't want to delete the cancel rockets, you can add a cancel distance. For exemple, if the rox "travel" 5/10m, she can be desactivate, but not before.
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kriouf
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Re: New gameplay feedbacks since Beta 2

Post by kriouf » 27 Dec 2012, 21:07

Thanks hylis for responding, its nice to see devs close to players.

You are developping a game that is declared an esport game. Random stuff must not exist in this kind of game, because its an esport game. When you add something you need to ask you: does it will be spamed? or does it need to be accurately aimed? high player will use this weapon or this move better than lower players? You need to add stuff that it increase the difference between levels of players not smoothing it.

Keep the game like this, keep the +0, give two live to defender, five live to attacker and give the possibility to the attacker to switch between rocket and railgun. THIS game will be dynamic and full of skills :D also give 55sec instead of 45to capture pole....its just an idea :p

I continue to say that previous rocket was just perfect rocket ever.


EDIT JUMPS:
I dont see the problem with jumps? only bad players dont like new jumps and ask a new key to full jump WHY ? because it is harder and require more timing and more skill to use. For my part i love the new jumps! can get the stamina speed with a litle smart jumps of 10cm high instead of 1m50 is very nice !
Try to get out of the spawn by jumping on the screen and then go back directly. It is very hard now, quite random.
Jump at the start without leaving the button, with key forward, continue to keep the jump button and you will get on the cube with stamina activated,go backward, jump, do a 180° with mouse in the air, and you get on the ground in the right direction with stamina speed. It require timing and skill but it work 100% time for me now=>its not random.

WALLJUMP:
Just perfect. Nothing to say, not random, usefull in some situation, require good timing and practice, i love it.

I have a suggestion, can you improve Joust mode please ? im and old u2003 ut2004 player and i think that a game need a real 1on1 comunity. this game got the potential to create a very nice duel mod.

+0
+0 : : To be honnest, when you see two +0 then a +1 on the screen, it's kind of impressive and entertaining....... Whining about this only come from attackers that can't take rid of this bad habbit for now.
LOL, not impressive at all, killing a load of rocket who com in line at you is all exept impressive.
When you hit on the skin of a guy who is hiding 98% of the time and get a +0 you cant directly hit a second time, because the dude is re hiding, and/or because you jumped in front of a wall to get the decal and at the second hit you falled and/or it was a reflex shot or a flickshot and at the second laser your crosshair is far from the defend. seriously Leavzoo, you know that.
Last edited by kriouf on 27 Dec 2012, 21:45, edited 5 times in total.

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zegodzila
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Re: New gameplay feedbacks since Beta 2

Post by zegodzila » 27 Dec 2012, 21:18

kriouf wrote:
I continue to say that previous rocket was just perfect rocket ever.
Totally !
Ingame nickname: Franz

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