[Thoughts]The good things about B3

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TMarc
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Re: [Thoughts]The good things about B3

Post by TMarc » 09 Aug 2013, 12:56

stop your bad language, will you!? :roll:

Hylis (Nadeo) will certainly know best if his game is going down that much or not.

Just put the preferred walljump behavoir on the wishlist, vote for it,
but don't start again and again those ridiculous and insulting debates.
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Re: [Thoughts]The good things about B3

Post by MuNgLo » 09 Aug 2013, 13:52

TMarc wrote:stop your bad language, will you!? :roll:

Hylis (Nadeo) will certainly know best if his game is going down that much or not.

Just put the preferred walljump behavoir on the wishlist, vote for it,
but don't start again and again those ridiculous and insulting debates.
Do you realize that in Hylis own words the B3 wj isn't good enough and they already have over half a year to work on this extremely important coremechanic. But they haven't. He even said it might get on the list to do in november.
That is in fact Nadeo/Hylis flipping the bird to the whole SM community.
Where are you when he is being arrogant and condescending, where are you when he instead of addressing arguments attack the poster.

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Re: [Thoughts]The good things about B3

Post by TMarc » 09 Aug 2013, 13:59

Hylis has never reacted silly if there was no silly attack before, and it is his game, his company, his way of doing the things. And I can tell you it needs a (sad zea) lot before he reacts as he sometimes did.
I can tell you because I know his writing already from the times of TrackMania Original.

One can be unhappy with some remarks or some precedures, but it is not Hylis who has started insulting others.
So please keep the respect you certainly due to him and all the others who are trying to make the best of it.

Perhaps a few smileys are missing here and then to make the words less heavy.
But it ends when it comes to insults, which are definitely not acceptable.

If you don't want to make Hylis and the developpers angry, please get back to topic and stop insulting others and stop telling that everything is "cheap crap" if you can't do it better yourself.
You would do yourself and all the others a favor if you would just leave then... many would be much more happy then :P
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Re: [Thoughts]The good things about B3

Post by roguesergeant » 09 Aug 2013, 14:09

TMarc wrote:Hylis has never reacted silly if there was no silly attack before, and it is his game, his company, his way of doing the things. And I can tell you it needs a (sad zea) lot before he reacts as he sometimes did.
I can tell you because I know his writing already from the times of TrackMania Original.

One can be unhappy with some remarks or some precedures, but it is not Hylis who has started insulting others.
So please keep the respect you certainly due to him and all the others who are trying to make the best of it.

Perhaps a few smileys are missing here and then to make the words less heavy.
But it ends when it comes to insults, which are definitely not acceptable.

If you don't want to make Hylis and the developpers angry, please get back to topic and stop insulting others and stop telling that everything is "cheap crap" if you can't do it better yourself.
You would do yourself and all the others a favor if you would just leave then... many would be much more happy then :P
Well if he's a North American player I guess that leaves us with 5 total. Do bots do elite yet?

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Re: [Thoughts]The good things about B3

Post by MuNgLo » 09 Aug 2013, 14:31

gotta luv when mods declare their fanboiism and tell players of a dying community to leave the game......

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Re: [Thoughts]The good things about B3

Post by sadzealot » 09 Aug 2013, 22:38

TMarc wrote:stop your bad language, will you!? :roll:

Hylis (Nadeo) will certainly know best if his game is going down that much or not.

Just put the preferred walljump behavoir on the wishlist, vote for it,
but don't start again and again those ridiculous and insulting debates.
What bad language? Allow me to tell you what is bad. To take away something most players found fun and great about the game, hand them something that is terrible (Hylis even admitted himself he thinks B3 walljumps are bad) and then tell them "No, this is what you get, and we might not even make it better in the future... we'll see"

Doing that is EXTREMELY bad manners and language Tmarc.

None of this would be such a big deal if he/Nadeo atleast came out and said "Yes we know B3 sucks, and we are working ot improve it but it wil take time."

Instead we get "Meh, we might not do something about it" thrown in our face.

If you don't see how disrespectful this is to your players.... well, you're a moron! (Notice I said you're only a moron if you didn't understand my point, and that is not using bad language or being disrespectful, but merely stating the truth and my opinion)

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Re: [Thoughts]The good things about B3

Post by Ozon » 10 Aug 2013, 02:36

dreammyw0w wrote:PING:

COMUNITY SUGGESTIONS :

We thank you that you listened to us in the past & that you implemented a lot of suggestions. Its a good list & it made the game better.

However, this doesnt mean you have to stop listening. Dont be blind. A LOT of thread are full with complaints about these changes and with reason. So why arent you listening now.
Im on this forums éveeeeeryday. I never saw some much complaints & still you dont accept our arguements & feedback.
Stop feeling offended when some1 says :

'AAH THIS SUX'.

Its the players opinion. And maybe he could have said :

' I dont like this, maybe you could adjust this a bit better"

and be more polite. Dont get offended because someone is a bit rude.
Translate his rudeness to constructive feedback yourself to:

" okay we have another person that doesnt like this change."


Besides, all this rage & rudeness counts as official feedback too.
Almost all of my bug reports, suggestions were discussed and after evalutation implemented or fixed. But the thing is, everyone has different opinions on different things. That's why things change. Nowadays in the fellow gaming community there are people thinking microjumps or walljumps do ruin his rounds. What does this make Nando Studios do? They have to discuss about these things too and make their mind about these things.

"Bad Bad Bad".

You cannot make everyone happy. Can you guys not deal with B3 for even once? In other games you will probably also blame the game sometimes when you lose because of your rage, but seriously.. a FPS that's based on training and learning?

That's probably why you think you are overheard. You are just a huge crowd with signs screaming for something, but there are even some guys in it beating up each other for no specific reason. You never have the same opinion about anything. And people swearing just because of "big deals" (actually not) like microjumps and even map selections make you look like a crowd of clowns.

Not the game has to evolve as fast as possible; most of you have. If you feel offended or not, it is just a friendly reminder that we still are playing one game together, having a team trying to make everyone just finally happy, what already seems like Mission Impossible.

Andrew made a nice start into the thread; he listed the good and bad things about the B3 for example. The attitude dropped down so much; c'mon guys, you are no kids.

Instead of wishing and wishing you should just make up your mind with others instead of attacking the dev team. That has never helped and also won't do this time.



Now to my opinion (who cares, I am not a pro anyway):

I have played the B3 alot the last weeks and I couldn't really see some big deal in the gameplay. Might just sound flat, but I got used to it quite fast. Only thing I remember was the first encounter with the new Walljumps. But hey, it's still possible to climb up onto gaps, so I do not really care. Until now I have never made or seen a double or triple elimination ingame. But I really hope for :D


And dreammyw0w, sorry, but even I can't take you serious anymore. (you know why, I guess)
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Re: [Thoughts]The good things about B3

Post by TMarc » 10 Aug 2013, 14:46

sadzealot wrote:What bad language? Allow me to tell you what is bad. To take away something most players found fun and great about the game, hand them something that is terrible (Hylis even admitted himself he thinks B3 walljumps are bad) and then tell them "No, this is what you get, and we might not even make it better in the future... we'll see"

Doing that is EXTREMELY bad manners and language Tmarc.

None of this would be such a big deal if he/Nadeo atleast came out and said "Yes we know B3 sucks, and we are working ot improve it but it wil take time."

Instead we get "Meh, we might not do something about it" thrown in our face.

If you don't see how disrespectful this is to your players.... well, you're a moron! (Notice I said you're only a moron if you didn't understand my point, and that is not using bad language or being disrespectful, but merely stating the truth and my opinion)
Understood, also your notice :)

Perhaps it is not really disrespectfull what some people write, perhaps it is just too direct or too harsh, but the border is very thin, especially if those people are using familiar or rather vulgare language in their usual talking.
One is writing something what the other is taking much too personally or not in the actually intended way.

But you also have to understand that Hylis is trying to make the game suitable for everyone - from absolute beginner to absolute pro gamer.
If he only earns disrespectful and doubtful critics or barefaced claims instead of well founded proposals and wishes, he is certainly frustrated, as well as part of the developpers team.
And then sometimes such an answer like "we don't know if or when we will work on it" comes out.
Ok, this kind of answer has been there also quite often, he just doesn't like to promise anything as long as he is not 100% confident of it.
And the B3 debate also shows it. Even if all know that a beta is never the final game, some ridicularly and extremely stick to the B3 as if there was no other choice. So one could think it would be better to avoid beta releases (like they did with TM² Valley actually), but it is also not the best choce.

Perhaps he will surprise us later, perhaps he only wants to see how many people really prefer the old walljump over the new. If the result of his examninations and thoughts is there, a few or many players will be disappointed.
He can't do it right for everyone, this he knows.

In early stages of the alpha/betas, the players could jump on places which were made unreachable now,
like trees, trenches. Many times players got stuck, this was fixed. Changes need to settle, especially if they are related to gameplay.

I think the walljump should be relatively easy to use, perhaps there is even a technical correllation to the other very long and very controversially discussed topic of micro-jumps.

I'm not sure if the walljumps can be directly affected just by scripting, but this could be one solution to allow modifications of the walljump for specific game modes, e.g. Elite.
But this would also cause a separation inside Storm, perhaps even between different servers.
And then no one could rely on constant game behavior, but is a predictable or constant behavoir not absolutely necessary for training, especially for the pro gamers?

Now there is vacation time, this month mostly nothing will happen with improvements or fixes for the game.
This is why we now have what we have, and not so soon something new.
The only thing we can do is discuss or try the actual game as good as we can, and find remaining bugs.

I hope all this good-answer / bad-answer discussion is mostly due to a misunderstanding. ;)
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Re: [Thoughts]The good things about B3

Post by quikku » 10 Aug 2013, 20:28

Hi, sorry for OTing, but I am getting more and more desperate. Does anyone know how to fix this problem that came up with B3?

http://forum.maniaplanet.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=22276

It's a "Synchronizing" tab bug - whenever I get the bar while connecting to a server, the game works. When I don't - I get the bug. "Alinoa" guy told me that he forwards the problem to the coders, but no responses so far.

Sorry for OTing again, but I know many people that struggle with this bug and we all are sad that noone knows how to fix it and that nobody answers the topic. Thank you!

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Re: [Thoughts]The good things about B3

Post by sadzealot » 11 Aug 2013, 11:16

TMarc wrote: But you also have to understand that Hylis is trying to make the game suitable for everyone - from absolute beginner to absolute pro gamer.
And this is where Nadeo is going wrong. They seem to think that having complex, difficult and even outright bastardous hard things in their game means that it won't be suitable for everyone. That's simply not true.

Take a game like DOTA2 if you will. A game that is down right near impossible to get good at without spending thousands of hours learning it. However, does that mean you don't enjoy Dota2 while a beginner? Ofcourse not, and that's why DOTA2 is also such a successfull game.

Now you take a game like Shootmania which everyone says is one of the easiest games to pick up because of it's simplicity. Which is true.

Then how come Hylis and Nadeo are insisting on taking away the few features that the high-level players want and seem to enjoy? How come this has to go away in order to "make beginners enjoy the game as well"?

Surely any beginner will enjoy the game even if they can't do microjumps or the most complex walljumps. I know I enjoyed the game (still do while on B2, B3 just infuriates me because of how limited I feel in my movement in terms of walljumps) when I couldn't do microjumps. And it wasn't like I couldn't play against people who could do them either.

And this is why people who play this game competitively are upset. They see this game being made into some kind of casual-friendly walk-in-the-park game because the few things in this game that actually required practice and skill are now being nerfed in favour of "beginners" and "casuals".

There is nothing wrong by making a game accessible to all levels of play, but when you nerf the skillceiling in favour of beginners you are pissing in the face of the high level players telling them they don't matter (and this for a mode that was sold as being made into a competitive esport title).

This game already IS accessible to beginners, but do you know what really scares beginners away from this game? There's zero tutorial, no explanation of anything. Not what the blocks do, not how they affect stuff (like stamina and ammo reload).

I'll just stop now before I go even more OT, but Hylis should really read this when he's back from holidays. Because if he thinks making game accessible to everyone means taking away from the high level players he doesn't understand FPS gamers very much.

There's a reason FPS idiots play Call of Duty and everyone else plays other FPS games.

The reason being CoD makes people feel like amazing players even if they're not.

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