So uh, why make maps for this?

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Ravious
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Re: So uh, why make maps for this?

Post by Ravious » 24 Aug 2011, 13:52

I hear TStarGermany's site is pretty cool and helpful. ;)
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EnaiSiaion
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Re: So uh, why make maps for this?

Post by EnaiSiaion » 24 Aug 2011, 18:16

:shock: :mrgreen:
Woot! B--
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pjw
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Re: So uh, why make maps for this?

Post by pjw » 27 Nov 2011, 00:55

I am so glad I checked this thread. I had gotten the impression that Shootmania would have no single-player aspect whatsoever, and I was really kind of worried about that. It would have been sort of surprising for Nadeo to make a decision that would limit the audience for the game so severely, just when they are trying to push into a new genre.

*sigh of relief*

:)

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banjee
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Re: So uh, why make maps for this?

Post by banjee » 27 Nov 2011, 07:35

EnaiSiaion wrote:If your map doesn't get hosted on a server, it is literally useless.
ok, but who says that shootmania single player has to be with bots? shootmania could be RPG heaven. i'm sure the MT will give us reason to be able to enjoy maps without other players or bots...

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zixxiz
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Re: So uh, why make maps for this?

Post by zixxiz » 05 Dec 2011, 00:15

EnaiSiaion wrote:If your map doesn't get hosted on a server, it is literally useless.
If you have a TM track that doesn't get hosted on a server, it is literally useless. And don't try to tell me that you can play it offline, because really, there are an overwhelmingly large number of tracks that are never played more than a handful of times online, or offline. Just poke around on TMX and there are some dead tracks.

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BLiNNeMaNS
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Re: So uh, why make maps for this?

Post by BLiNNeMaNS » 05 Dec 2011, 17:23

zixxiz wrote:
EnaiSiaion wrote:If your map doesn't get hosted on a server, it is literally useless.
If you have a TM track that doesn't get hosted on a server, it is literally useless. And don't try to tell me that you can play it offline, because really, there are an overwhelmingly large number of tracks that are never played more than a handful of times online, or offline. Just poke around on TMX and there are some dead tracks.
ehr.. i could start trolling around, but i won't :P

Reason why those tracks aren't played online is because most of them aren't that good.
good tracks come from practice and asking your buddies for feedback
To get your good tracks attention, making a youtube/tmtube vid, posting the track on server forums or creating your own server and host your tracks yourself are some of the things one can do.

Now about your own tracks, here's why i think your tracks aren't played a lot:

You're making a few beginner mistakes in your tracks which people in general dislike.
- no signage
- no flow
- no mediatracker
- blockmixing (just because you can, doesn't mean you need to)
- sharp turns at high speed
- sharp turns after uphill
- uncalculated drops making you jump way too far


Thorough analysis on your 2 tracks:

swish swash
- there's no signage (beside 1 sign to the left somewhere in the mid of the track)
- there's no mediatracker work (a gps ghost would really help people to understand how to drive the track)
- the drop on 7 seconds followed by a sharp turn to the left has no warning or signage at all
- placing stuff on dirt also create bumpy rocks around it making the track almost impossible to drive without luck
- 1st cp should either be 1 block more to the left or 1 more to the rear to get proper flow
- there's another rocky luckbump when going to 1st tunnel
- there's a double drop after the tunnel towards the underground part, another "lucky" jump
- after the narrow dirt turn to the left there's a tunnel part. when you get out u're blinded and crash into a wall.
(setting mood to evening will solve that issue)

No Hard Feelings
- the start... yawn a drop and an instant crash due to rock formation putting you sideways
- huge cut going to left at start
- unnecessary blockmixing. stay away from tm2unlimiter as long as you can't create proper flow without it
- at around 33 sec there's a sharp turn to the left after an uphill. classic beginner mistake.
- you gain too much speed in the track to get through the tunnels towards checkpoints, making you crash


So my conclusion here:
stay away from tm2unlimiter or hex editors as long as you can, work on trackflow, testdrive the entire track after every change you made and practice practice practice.

Lethal1
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Re: So uh, why make maps for this?

Post by Lethal1 » 05 Dec 2011, 19:14

Why are we talking about TM in the SM forum?

My hope is that SM is mod friendly and the more talented people out there can code up some bots for it.

redfog
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Re: So uh, why make maps for this?

Post by redfog » 06 Dec 2011, 21:38

If think that you can host your server easily. ;)

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BLiNNeMaNS
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Re: So uh, why make maps for this?

Post by BLiNNeMaNS » 07 Dec 2011, 11:47

Lethal1 wrote:Why are we talking about TM in the SM forum?
well.. same reason a lot of shooters of other origin than maniaplanet engine are mentioned in other topics. To compare features.
Reason i went into the comment as deep as i did was the fact the poster made an assumption which was incorrect in my opinion.
In short my reply was "building proper maps for any game and lobbying afterwards will lead to it being played".

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zixxiz
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Re: So uh, why make maps for this?

Post by zixxiz » 15 Dec 2011, 08:23

BLiNNeMaNS wrote:
Lethal1 wrote:Why are we talking about TM in the SM forum?
well.. same reason a lot of shooters of other origin than maniaplanet engine are mentioned in other topics. To compare features.
Reason i went into the comment as deep as i did was the fact the poster made an assumption which was incorrect in my opinion.
In short my reply was "building proper maps for any game and lobbying afterwards will lead to it being played".
Funny, because I didn't really make any assumptions, nor did you even address what I said about the lack of activity on tracks. All you did was point out that I have 2 tracks that were made in beta which are not suited for online play, as if I intimated that all my tracks are good or suited or online play. The first track was my first Canyon track and obviously mediocre at best, not to mention I left a number of difficult/annoying parts in because I like the challenge. The second track was not made with TMUnlimiter or blockmixing. It was made with a beta editor bug, and was made solely to exploit it, with no expectation of online play. Finally, I dont see why it was appropriate to derail the topic because you felt compelled to tell me why my tracks arent played, as if I dont know already.
Reason why those tracks aren't played online is because most of them aren't that good.

I think you mean that most tracks arent played online because that arent suited for online play, not because they arent good. Case in Point Additionally, the quality of tracks is subjective to the racer because of genre, flow, and environment. Another factor is author popularity. You may disagree, but if you made the same track as someone who was new to the community, your track would get played and theirs wouldn't because you have a well known presence in the community. Does this mean your tracks are better than a no-namer's? No, but you will get the attention anyway.

When SM rolls around, how the system of good and bad maps will change because the game genre will change and the game will not have preconceived expectations for its maps as Canyon did. The standard may be set higher because all maps need to be for online play, by you aren't going to be racing for time on them either. For example in some other shooters, campers are an issue and when making maps that is something to keep in mind, but the game modes for SM may make campers moot, who knows.

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