Talkshow with Hylis - ShootMania Discord - November 22, 2017

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Re: Talkshow with Hylis - ShootMania Discord - November 22, 2017

Post by Alinoa » 11 Dec 2017, 11:18

Thank you Miss and guys for your constructive and positive words :thx:
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Re: Talkshow with Hylis - ShootMania Discord - November 22, 2017

Post by HYPE » 17 Dec 2017, 13:35

eyebo wrote:
09 Dec 2017, 16:44
The lack of players is a real problem, which is why it was almost the first thing that was addressed in the interview. Hylis acknowledged it. But he doesn't have a magic wand. Don't you think they want their game played as much as any of us do? Of course they do! It's their blood, sweat, and tears that went into creating it. Stop treating Nadeo like the enemy. Nothing will ever be accomplished by putting yourself at odds with the devs. If you want SM to make a big comeback, meet the team halfway.
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Re: Talkshow with Hylis - ShootMania Discord - November 22, 2017

Post by Soprah » 17 Dec 2017, 14:39

I like all the responses from miss, eyebo etc.

But the big issue is - from what I've experienced of doing similar responses: The huge counter-responses (about rather being positive, optimistic etc) don't achieve the desired effect. Most of the people who possess a "negative/realistic/pessimistic" attitude will not change their behaviour when they read these kind of responses. It will only reinforce their feeling of being misunderstood or rejected. And ultimately, it will come to a point where they feel like "It's enough" and they leave the game.

I don't think there is anything we can do for people like them. The last remaining option we might have is to be optimistic, active. But we shouldn't react any further to post like these (even if their is the huge inner urge which pushes us to do so)

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Re: Talkshow with Hylis - ShootMania Discord - November 22, 2017

Post by Miss » 17 Dec 2017, 15:39

I agree, but I do think some things have to be said in the hope that people aren't as ignorant as their post makes them seem.

Anyway.. :)
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Re: Talkshow with Hylis - ShootMania Discord - November 22, 2017

Post by Wabbitface » 31 Dec 2017, 18:36

Pretty glad to see there is more work going into Shootmania. I can understand how difficult it must be to implement new things or even modify existing structure within Maniaplanet and nobody can deny that it is an extremely ambitious project. While years have passed, Nadeo have surprised me with maintaining their dedication not only maintaining the platform, but making big changes to the overall system.

I can see that every implementation seems to have it's own pro's and cons, Nadeo's focus on the big picture is a very good thing to know about, to provide a space for the players to create what they want and release it to the world, however even at this state I've always expected at least one title to boom in popularity and yet that has not happened... yet.

There seems to be a variety of contributing factors preventing that from happening. Some I can identify myself, but I am sure there are other contributing factors I don't see that Nadeo probably do and I imagine they do plan to find or work on a solution around them.

Nadeo have Maniaplanet, they've been working and re-working on it for at least 15 years. So far they have implemented some very promising elements that have been great solutions to some major problems and even now, there is a long road ahead to achieve more success.

Over the last year, I've only logged into the client a handful of times to get an idea what the current first-impression is like to new users, three major things seem to stick out to me the most:

- Downloading, installing, updating, installing updates, joining a server, downloading and installing gamemode pack, skins etc.. is currently still a long and obnoxious process for any new user. I remember even back in 2012, it wasn't as much of a problem as everything was still quite new/in beta so it never caused me any concern. However years have passed, game has been officially released and this very process to get into your first game server is still quite a laborious one, perhaps even more now. For example, even though I understand Blizzard is a giant when it comes to video game development, their game launcher is by far the most impressive videogame launcher system I have ever seen. Being so well built, I can actually play a game even if it's only downloaded less than 5% of the game content. To me that's absolutely amazing, that I can jump right into a game with little or no hassle at all. I understand that value Blizzard have when building quality content, and it shows that in doing so, players continue to come back to play their games.

A solution to download and install process would mean reworking the downloading and installing of content structure. Obviously it is in 'working' order at the moment, however I feel Maniaplanet is definitely falling behind in industry standards in comparison to quality titles or game launchers today.

- Once in the game, game settings menu is displayed as a dropdown from the topright corner. To some extent it is a convenient feature however only to a handful of settings. From what I've found, most new users probably still have to close the game down and load the launcher if they wanted to change important settings for the game. Some players I imagine don't even know the maniaplanet launcher with config even exists, some might assume that they would need to access config.txt like in a lot of games. So as a result, they might not bother and just leave if they feel the game is not running up to their standard.

A solution to this would to scrap the dropdown setting menus and replace it will a full page, setting categories like: Gameplay, Interface, Video, Controls, Audio & Social category tabs, within them a full list of all the options you can turn on/off or enter value. Options to reset to default, create custom profiles you can easily switch to, apply. If in the case you have to restart the game after making a setting change, prompt the user to restart the client for the changes to take effect. I understand that this would be a major change to the base code of Maniaplanet, however I feel this is a pretty vital feature the userbase needs access to for PC games and is pretty much an industry standard from what I can see.

-A hook, aka reason to continue coming back to the game. Every game has at least one hook to keep players playing, whether it's an implemented progression system to make users feel like they have a goal to reach (it might even be an endless goal):

Perhaps something so simple as a profile account level earned by experience (exp). Progressing levels earning cosmetic rewards (doesn't work for Maniaplanet as all cosmetic content appears to be free, if there was a store to spend credits on items, there wouldn't be any point for anyone to buy those if there is still free skins/horns/emotes/stickers/podium poses etc.. available to the user, so reworking the system (even though a major part of the content creators in the community would hate that change) having control of what cosmetic content are available, will earn a hook for those players who want to collect items, show them off or tick off achievement boxes and get 100% profile completion. However it might be the case that restricting the ability to create and release cosmetic content for free to the community is against Nadeo's vision. So that solution itself might not be an option, so looking towards other reward-like system would be a better workaround.

Other hooks could include some element of reward for creating something in the game, a map or gamemode for example. Asking the question, what would I get out of ShootMania/maniaplanet if I load the client right now, make a map for ShootMania Battle and release it to the community? What will I get out of that? What would I gain for spending my time building a nice map for players to play? This to me is a really important question to ask our users, listening to their answers or being aware that they have no reason to do things Nadeo want's the community to do are pretty important too, almost as much as making a great game like SM.

Maniaplanet has some fantastic amount of customizability available for the user to create and submit, however I feel gamification elements do need to be added to some extent as a small little boost reward for either creating something new, or using that content.

My own opinion is they could do with being tackled at some point within the next 5 years. I might be wrong, maybe there are more important areas for the team to work on in ShootMania/Maniaplanet. However I thought I should bring these three main areas, if implemented well into Maniaplanet (a huge amount of work I imagine), however within completion, would be a major step to retaining the current inflow of new players from 5 in 100 players to a substantially much higher return-rate.

[Edit] Please don't take what I said above the wrong way, I'm only 'suggesting' ideas. I don't care about a response, but do please consider it as useful feedback from one of your user's who is struggling to find real reasons to play. I know for a fact my struggles to play may differ from other players, maybe even entirely different from new players coming in and never coming back, but I do try my best to see what they might be thinking as they have their first experience with the game and Maniaplanet.
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Re: Talkshow with Hylis - ShootMania Discord - November 22, 2017

Post by Alinoa » 04 Jan 2018, 11:09

Hey thank you Wabbit for your feedback :)
I wish you a great 2018 year ^_^
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Re: Talkshow with Hylis - ShootMania Discord - November 22, 2017

Post by kadaz » 04 Jan 2018, 21:28

Maniaplanet could learn a lot from Robocraft.. just saying, perhaps being the big head, doesn't mean you have to be stubborn to recognize a game that really hit the popularity chart of social ability and with a good clan support. With this being said.. It has very a simply interface, interaction an gameplay.. in a very fast maneuverability to join a game and be playing within minutes and feel an anticipation that you won something in a mere 10 minute match and not just some lp digits. Maniaplanet does a lot of complication and its game interactions has a feel from a game developer sense, not a user involvement sense. Its too busy in Maniaplanet with all its features and accessibility, but that is all fine, considering the larger wide feasibility Maniaplanet has to offer, yet the presentation of the information in the format that Maniaplanet makes it seem "pleasant" and "obtainable" is so not organized and properly displayed..

Then there is warlords with this "channels" thing, and being a first person perspective game, not to offer a left/right handed player.
Channels was a supplement band-aid to group players together to play at the same time, yet caused restrictions because they took away the demo modes. It was like getting the door set on the hinge, but without the doorpin, it doesn't cause movement, thus the popularity stayed the same.

Nevertheless the mp4 update took all those people's servers offline too. Scratches his head.. sometimes I wonder if Nadeo actually listens or just listen too much than just doing what is right to make it a great game for popularity first... Nadeo has everything it needs, so where so it be it lacks? Learn what works and then improve on it. If Nadeo is only interested on uniqueness and prosperity, it will fail. Uniqueness is involved in the stability.. and tailored to match the demand of the enthusiasm. Or its like a tree trying to grow in parched land and the tree doesn't bear fruit because its spread itself to diverse and thin, thus lacks the resources to obtain the proper requirements to be an well established, founded game in society.

Go back to with what works, and just a thought, say a prayer. :D

:arrow: That's all, God bless.
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Re: Talkshow with Hylis - ShootMania Discord - November 22, 2017

Post by HYPE » 07 Jan 2018, 20:54

Wabbitface wrote:
31 Dec 2017, 18:36
-A hook, aka reason to continue coming back to the game. Every game has at least one hook to keep players playing, whether it's an implemented progression system to make users feel like they have a goal to reach (it might even be an endless goal):
I think the hook from ShootMania is the movement. I really belive, that this very unique and awesome feeling to move around in all those very diffrent maps in ShootMania, is what makes many players come back to the game from time to time. It is for sure the reason why I love this game so much and why I can't find myself enjoying other games like Overwatch as much as I do enjoy ShootMania. It doesn't matter which gamemode I play, the movement is always the same and makes everything a great expiriance! :D
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