Revival of Shootmania

Discuss everything related to Shootmania.

Moderator: English Moderator

Would you be interested in a Revival of Shootmania?

Yes, but keep everything like it is!
2
6%
Yes, but with the changes listed in this thread!
15
47%
Yes, but with different changes!
4
13%
Yes, but take only the concept of the game and the good mechanics and put them in a new game!
8
25%
No, Shootmania is dead and has no potential on surviving even with a makeover!
3
9%
 
Total votes: 32

User avatar
HYPE
Posts: 593
Joined: 11 Dec 2014, 12:17
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Contact:

Re: Revival of Shootmania

Post by HYPE » 21 Sep 2018, 12:52

Monkey wrote:
08 Sep 2018, 06:49
2.2. Frustration through lack of Rewards

If Starters actually manage to survive and get a couple of points in a round that is all they get. They don't get a high increase in elo points, they don't get any fancy skins or titles to their name. They just get the satisfaction of managing to survive, land a couple of hits or even win the game (which is awesome since it's not that easy to achieve) but all those good things only hold for a matter of minutes, maybe even seconds and get shattered by the next round of dying after being 10 seconds into the game.

And don't get me wrong. I personally love this about Shootmania since I don't need any fancy cosmetics to feel good and valuated by the game, for me the fun factor about a game is to become better every round and to improve myself.

But I also understand that for many players achievements and collectibles are an important part of the game since they give you at least a bit of satisfaction in the progress of getting better and Shootmania is totally behind in that field. I will come back to Cosmetics later in my thread since it is a huge deal for both sides. Players are more satisfied and have something to play for and developers can make it a source of income or just use it as a form of reward.
Here's a summary of the discussion on Discord about this topic:

- I summed up why this is a difficult topic:
HYPE wrote:Giving skins and other achievements as rewards, is useless when you can create your own skins yourself and easily download them from Maniapark or somewhere else. That means nadeo would need to delete that option, which destroys the whole idea of shootmania for me and many others
- It was mentioned that you can still have other achievements that players can not create themselves yet. Animations, diffrent look or sound for rockets, lasers, etc or sprays for example.

- Smörgåsgurka brought up another good point:
Smörgåsgurka wrote:If you think of the game as a whole, how big a part is creating your own player skins? Even as it is in this small community that's left, a lot of people play with the default skin with other player's skins turned off.
- Alexey takes it even to the next level and explains why disabling the option to create and use your own skin, could benefit the creators:
Alexey wrote:to the question of skins. i have them disabled for the longest time. once i saw a skin quite bigger than normal so the mismatch between the looks and the hitbox was significant, i didn't want to deal with that. when you think about it, do you really want to see players using literally any skin which can be all degrees of distastefulness, trolling, etc? i'm in favor of well made official skins which can't be turned off than all open custom skins which people are going to turn off anyway once the weirdness/annoyance of some skins overgrows people's tolerance
- A mission tree like Monkey mentioned himself in the point above, could also give new and old players the feeling of reward. But this would mean a lot of work, if you want to do it right.
HYPE Smurf

Professional QuestMania-Player since 2022

When you get sad, stop being sad and be AWESOME instead.

ShootMania Community Discord Server

User avatar
HYPE
Posts: 593
Joined: 11 Dec 2014, 12:17
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Contact:

Re: Revival of Shootmania

Post by HYPE » 25 Sep 2018, 15:11

Monkey wrote:
08 Sep 2018, 06:49
3.2. Elo system
I am not completely sure if I am still up to date about this topic but I will just use the information I have, please correct me if I am wrong.
In the beginning there were 9 possible ranks divided in 3 categories.

We had Bronce which was 1 to 3
We had Silver which was 4-6
And we had Gold which was 7-9

Every step to the next rank was 10000 LP which basically where points you got from doing good in each round.

You could gain LP and you could loose LP always depending on your individual game result. You couldn't loose a rank though, as soon as you managed to rank up the rank was yours forever (not 100% sure if that's true).
Your LP also got influenced by the people you were playing against or you were teaming up with meaning the higher the enemy ranks have been the more LP you could get and same way around, the higher your teammates were ranked, the lower was your potential LP outcome even if you did really well.

Then they added a rank 10 but I am not sure if anyone ever achieved it since the servers were 90k which means after 90k you couldn't gain anymore LP.

In generell the Elo system worked pretty well in my opinion but I would recommend or suggest to add more ranks in total. In the end of my Shootmania gaming days everyone I played with (including myself) was rank 9 but that didn't mean at all that we all were on the same skill level.
So many friends of mine were so much better then me and I myself was better then so many other people I knew who've been also rank 9. I would suggest to add a couple of more ranks after rank 9 and start to let people loose their ranks from rank 9 on if they don't play good.

This would result into a more clear view of the best players which also is a motivational factor since people are gonna try to achieve these rare high ranks which seem more appealing then just beeing one of many rank 9ers
Here's a summary of the discussion on Discord about this topic (made by Kenny, thx for that :thx: :

- The current system isn't appropriate for all modes.
--> Modes are rewarded differently.

- It is preferable with individual mode-, cross title pack-, personal- and team based ranking.
--> Depending on the title pack in question.

- It is difficult to agree on any better system while the player pool is as low as it is.

- Even more so while we don't know what exactly is in the pipeline for SM.

- Ranking is a vital part of a competitive shooter.
HYPE Smurf

Professional QuestMania-Player since 2022

When you get sad, stop being sad and be AWESOME instead.

ShootMania Community Discord Server

User avatar
HYPE
Posts: 593
Joined: 11 Dec 2014, 12:17
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Contact:

Re: Revival of Shootmania

Post by HYPE » 28 Sep 2018, 13:53

Monkey wrote:
08 Sep 2018, 06:49
4. Participation of Players

Now we reached the hardest topic of them all (at least for me) since the Participation is what makes Maniaplanet what it is. The participation of the community is awesome on the one hand since it resulted in community cups, new player models, custom horns and avatars, tons of new game modes etc. but on the other hand it probably was one of the main reason for Shootmanias death.

Yes I know that sounds harsh but let me explain. There were 3 groups of creations which resulted in diversity but also in decrease of players.

We had the servers (the smallest problem)
We had new maps
And we had new gamemodes (the biggest problem)


All those things sound kinda good if you look at them in a developing kind of view but they were also pretty bad for the active player numbers. Through all of those different servers and game modes to choose from the community split in small groups who each choose their favorite mode to play. You have to imagine an already not that big community to split from lets say 2-3 possible servers and modes to 10 servers in 20 different modes.

If you look at that with a number it's really sad. Let's visualize it for just a second.

Let's say we have 3 Modes: Royal, Elite, Siege. Each of these modes have 3 main active servers on them people can choose from to play on.
Let's say we have a active community of 1000 people. That would mean we have 1000 people split through 3 modes on 3 servers each.

1000 : 3 = 333
333: 3 = 100

As you can see in this scenario we had around 100 people on every server in every mode.

Now lets see how it looks like after all those community gamemodes and servers were added into the game.

Lets say we have 10 modes now with also 3 servers each.

1000 : 10 = 100
100 : 3 = 33

I won't keep going (even though there were much more servers and gamemodes to choose from) but you can hopefully see me point now.


Not even games like CoD can bring up so many people to fill up all their modes, If you take a look at the newest CoD you will see that all the players play in Deathmatch, Team Deathmatch, Free-for-All and that's basically it. Eventhough with their massive community they can't bring that many players into their game to fill them all, if CoD would split their active players between all their available modes you would have to wait a couple minutes everytime you want to find a new match.


4.1. Gamemodes

Yes, the community did an awesome job on some of these game modes and I had tons of fun playing them but it would be better if Nadeo controlls the publishing of the gamemodes. Instead of people beeing able to create game modes and putting them up why don't leave it to the developers to decide which mode should become a part of Shootmania.

Make creator contests. People can send in their ideas and Nadeo tests them and in the end of each month one Mode wins and replaces the mode of last months winner. Yes, some people will be sad about loosing their favorite mod, but if a lot of people are missing it you can bring it back as an special event like URF in LoL or maybe even put it into the game forever if there is a huge amount of people requesting it.
Here's a summary of the discussion on Discord about this topic:

- As expected this was a topic where the opinions are split.
---> Some agree with Monkey that the many diffrent gamemodes and titlepacks leaded to the community spliting too much apart, which then again leaded to the game's playerbase shrinking as there were not enough players in the single gamemodes to play at any time.
---> Others say that the large amount of gamemodes and titlepacks gave the game a diversity that attracted many players in the first place. While one gamemode is the reason that they stay in the game, they would also hop into other gamemodes from time to time, which makes the whole game more active.

- The offical modes should have something that pulls players there either way. In this case a lot of playermade modes would not hurt the community

- Porbably more a topic for the next point, but it was mentioned that Nadeo needs to support popular gamemodes by hosting public servers apart from the channels, when there is no servers from the community in this mode.
HYPE Smurf

Professional QuestMania-Player since 2022

When you get sad, stop being sad and be AWESOME instead.

ShootMania Community Discord Server

User avatar
HYPE
Posts: 593
Joined: 11 Dec 2014, 12:17
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Contact:

Re: Revival of Shootmania

Post by HYPE » 02 Oct 2018, 12:39

Monkey wrote:
08 Sep 2018, 06:49
4.2. Servers

Back in the days there were two major servers which were Smurfen and Paragon.

Choose from all the servers and only use the ones who really put a lot of work in their servers like those two mentioned before. Or even create some more Nadeo owned servers again, like the beginner server. Make enough servers for everyone to choose from but keep it at a number that every server has enough players, we don't need 20 servers with 17 of them beeing empty all day.

The only servers apart from what I mentioned above which should be Clan owned are the Elite practice servers where the Clan can put all their members in with a protected password so they have time and peace to train together and invite other clans for a scrimmage.
Here's a summary of the discussion on Discord about this topic:

- Many players would favour a lobby system where you can enter which gamemodes you would like to play and then you get transfered to one of this gamemodes if there is enough other players for it.
--> Yet the option to join a server directly should still exist. Especially for obstacle a lobby system doesn't make much sense.
--> This could be a replacement for the current channel system. Players with paid account could then be able to join server directly.

- Nobody could agree with Monkey's point that only big communities like Paragon or Smurfs should be able to host servers. We could not see in what way many servers would hurt the community. In the worst case they just stay empty.
HYPE Smurf

Professional QuestMania-Player since 2022

When you get sad, stop being sad and be AWESOME instead.

ShootMania Community Discord Server

User avatar
HYPE
Posts: 593
Joined: 11 Dec 2014, 12:17
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Contact:

Re: Revival of Shootmania

Post by HYPE » 07 Oct 2018, 12:53

Monkey wrote:
08 Sep 2018, 06:49
4.3. Maps

The map creator is a cool tool but also kinda annoying.
I remember tons of players complaining about maps because of their structure which really wasn't optimal for the game mode they were used for.
Map creation is fun but to create an actual decent and balanced map is really hard and not everyone who creates a map is able to do so.

Same as with the gamemodes it would be good if Nadeo starts controlling the custom maps. Make an event every day for 1 or 2 hours where all the new maps get tested and people can vote for the maps, if a map gets highly liked by the majority of the players put it in the game. That way you will prevent people from quitting the game because of anger about unbalanced custom maps.
Here's a summary of the discussion on Discord about this topic:

- Everyone had kind of the same opinion in this topic and Smörgåsgurka summed it up the best:
Smörgåsgurka wrote:This is only a problem because there basically is no official servers with official maps. Server hosts should get to control what they want on their servers, but there should be official servers/quickplay/MM where Nadeo has the control. So for people who want to play official maps only have somewhere to go. These official maps could be made by Nadeo or there could be some star system where you can star a map and if it gets enough votes it can become official (after review by Nadeo).
HYPE Smurf

Professional QuestMania-Player since 2022

When you get sad, stop being sad and be AWESOME instead.

ShootMania Community Discord Server

User avatar
HYPE
Posts: 593
Joined: 11 Dec 2014, 12:17
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Contact:

Re: Revival of Shootmania

Post by HYPE » 14 Oct 2018, 13:46

Monkey wrote:
08 Sep 2018, 06:49
4.4. Guides and Tutorials

As we can see from all the custom modes and maps Shootmanias community likes to participate in creating content. Why don't redirect this awesome ability/personality of this community to something where they actually can help their fellow players?

Create Youtube videos on how to get better, explain how the Elosystem works, give advice for certain Obstacle levels/parts.

Teach new players how to microjump, how to control your stamina, how to wall jump efficient, how to shoot properly, how to do rocketjumps and show them the "perfect settings for a smoother game". Give the community a way to participate and while doing that to help each other sharing knowledge and showing them how certain things are done in form of a video tutorial. This will also make the beginning of Shootmania easier for the newbies.
First of all I want to share Aurel's website at this point, because he made a great job creating some tutorials: http://aurel.obsmania.com/

Here's a summary of the discussion on Discord about this topic:

- Many players would prefer some sort of campaign ingame, where you can practice stuff yourself over videos
--> Videos are quickly outdated
--> To do what you learned in a video, you first need to find a server anyway
--> A campaign would need bots
--> With a campaign beginners would have a way to play without playing against much better players

- It would be important that tutorials (of whatever kind) are easy to find for beginners or maybe even forced at the beginning

- Tips in loading screens would also help beginners to learn some tricks and to understand certain modes better. An example from Dreammyw0w: here.
HYPE Smurf

Professional QuestMania-Player since 2022

When you get sad, stop being sad and be AWESOME instead.

ShootMania Community Discord Server

Frankthetankmp
Posts: 128
Joined: 19 Jul 2015, 19:21

Re: Revival of Shootmania

Post by Frankthetankmp » 20 Oct 2018, 20:54

My whishes for sm:
-flying vehicles like spaceships and fighter-battles (no i did not watch too much of star wars xD)
-destroyable environment. (for example if you shoot at a wood and it breaks or burns then)
-SPACE SETTING with nogravity and flying arround stuff :D

User avatar
Florenzius
Translator
Translator
Posts: 2356
Joined: 27 Jul 2014, 20:31
Location: Germany » Saxony » Chemnitz
Contact:

Re: Revival of Shootmania

Post by Florenzius » 20 Oct 2018, 21:30

I guess wishes everyone got during the long time of SM being, but definietly not possible with the current engine, and probably nothing for the future since Nadeo was always into static environments and non-destroyable decoration. The other two things seem to be realistic tho hehe
Hardware specs:
MB: MB AM3+ 970 Gigabyte GA-970A-DS3P
RAM: 16GB DDR3
CPU: AMD FX-8320E Enlight-Core
GPU: Nvidia GeForce GTX 960
OS: Windows 10 Pro

User avatar
HYPE
Posts: 593
Joined: 11 Dec 2014, 12:17
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Contact:

Re: Revival of Shootmania

Post by HYPE » 21 Oct 2018, 13:01

Well we have the gates where you have to shoot three rockets (or two lasers) against to open it. Not really a destroyable item, but it goes in that direction, right? So maybe there is a chance. :P
HYPE Smurf

Professional QuestMania-Player since 2022

When you get sad, stop being sad and be AWESOME instead.

ShootMania Community Discord Server

User avatar
stefan.fueger
Posts: 68
Joined: 11 Apr 2013, 13:17

Re: Revival of Shootmania

Post by stefan.fueger » 30 Oct 2018, 09:40

Disclaimer: I didn't read through the whole thread and all options listed in it.

Background: I am not a casual gamer but played games like Quake and UT with passion, mapped for them and loved Shootmania (despite it's flaws) in the beginning. Made some mappacks and we even held a small tournament. I also develop advertising games for companies so I know a bit of what to do to make a game work.

And finally my 2 cents:
Shootmania as we have it (Storm environment) doesn't work at all to gain a larger playerbase. It's dead and will stay dead. Small changes won't help. A restart is -IMHO- the only option.

First of all the environment: It looks completely boring. It is a generic, uninspired landscape with a bit of boring architecture. Second: the current architecure prevents too many possibilites when mapping (many blocks need to go to the floor instead of floating, no matter how high you place it ... just one example). The whole thing should more work like Stadium where I can place all the platforms, walkways where I want without taking away control of what I want to build beneath them. And it should have an over the top theme that is much more easily modified/skinned so that you can make maps that look great and aren't restrained too much by the basic building-concept.

The player model: It fits well into the current environment, as it is boring and generic. THe people out there want more variants that are funny, evil, over the top, or whatever. Just look at the current models in modern (non-military shooters), like Overwatch and Fortnite. This can be achieved in a non-comic setting too, when you have a look at Quake Champions, the last and even current UT, etc ... and not everybody wants to go to Maniapark or wherever and downöload new skins from there. The people wanna start the game (preferably without going through the abomination of a GUI that Maniaplanet has become ;) ) and play with what is in the game. So there should be 6 to 8 interesting playermodels that can be slightly customized within the game from the start. Later there can be new skins or unlockable items or so. But make the game look and feel fun from the start.

Gametypes: A game that doesn't have a large playerbase needs very few gametypes. Let the movement and shooting mechanics work to get the players in the game. Those who like the basic mechanics will stay for them. Then give them 3 options at the very max (more like 2 at max in Shootmania's current state) to not split the small base into more even smaller groups. So, IMHO, there currently should only be two titles that contain one gametype each. Not one title with 4 gametypes and another title with 1 gametype. Make it easy to understand for those who want to have a look at the game to keep them.
Later there can be user titles in the channels section where players that tried the game and stayed find new gametypes like speedball, jailbreak or whatever. But restrict the gametypes that come with the vanilla game to two or three.

Bots: Sorry to say, but without bots (KI-opponents, not cheat-bots ;) ) that are good and fair opponents a game with a low playerbase is bound to lose even more players. Make little campaigns that one can play offline completely (perhaps with a tournament ladder) or to fill lowly populated servers (but let the option to have bots be decidedd by the server admin).

That's all I have to say.

And since that won't happen Shootmania will stay dead as only a complete restart would make that possible.

Post Reply

Return to “Shootmania”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Exabot [Bot] and 2 guests