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Nadeo's next project

Posted: 13 Aug 2019, 23:37
by Soprah

@Dear Nadeo, Dear Forum Moderators, Dear Players:
In the past, 1 or a few more negative posts have been enough to close a topic. So please players, be respectful towards the creators of this game. And if there are negative posts, please don't just close the thread. Delete the negative posts instead, so the behaving community doesn't get punished :thx:

My intention is to have 1 central topic where we can analyse and discuss on what Nadeo is currently working on.

My procedure: At first I'd like to gather all the fact that we know. Then I look at each fact and write down my assumption based on this fact. At last, I will combine all my assumptions that resulted from each fact and create one final idea. :thumbsup:

The facts that we already know:
a) Nadeo keeps pushing small updates to the game
New Maniaplanet version July 2019
Royal squad update June 2019
Competition management tool May 2019
Mesh modeler update April 2019
b) Nadeo keeps being quiet / They haven't announced anything about their "next project" / No HelloPlanets for the last ~3 years
c) Although Nadeo kept working on Maniaplanet, the playerbase kept shrinking over the last 3-5 years in general.
d) Hylis about QM "It should be the last game I would work on, forever." Src
e) Hylis about Maniaplanet "We intend to split SM and TM in the future." Src
f) No graphical updates for the last 10years

I think there are many more facts hidden in this forum. If you know one, suggest it here so I can implement them in this first post. But I guess these are the most important ones.

So let's start interpreting these facts...
... What is Nadeo's WIP / Next project?

Facts D) + E)
I am sure that many people are thinking something like "Nadeo will release something completely new. Something different from the SM/TM/QM concept". But I assume that's wrong. Because Hylis said that he intends to split TM & SM in the future. And if you want to split something, then you usually intend to keep working on it but just seperately. Otherwise you wouldn't make the effort to split it. So Nadeo will stay with their SM/TM/QM-concept. And we can also clarify that the next big thing won't be Questmania because Hylis said it will be the last game he would work on, forever. And he didn't say that once. I think he said it at least 3times. 2 times in the QM-Forum and once in the SM forum. So I guess that's pretty clear too.
===> Assumption 1) Keeping TM/SM/QM concept, QM as last game

Fact B)

Nadeo has always been very quiet. So it's pretty normal that Nadeo isn't revealing or announcing anything. But the last announcement was a few years ago. Additionally, Hylis stopped the tradition of releasing a "HelloPlanet" article every year where he used to show us the new upcoming content. I suppose Nadeo is working on something big. Reasons for this choice:
If you want to reveal something big, then an article won't be enough for marketing purposes. Remember when Nadeo firstly announced Tm2? We first got to know when they showed us a trailer. Something as big as the first announcement of Trackmania². Otherwise he could have released a new article where he reveals some information...
A related post about Hylis' state of mind towards marketing...
Because of marketing, it is hard to tell more about the future, and it is as much frustrating for us. Meanwhile, people want proper marketing. But to do it, you need something big to announce or nobody will talk about it. So it takes time to make big things and you can't talk about them while you do. So, you try to bring what you can during you do the next thing, like players request of a better UIs, but most of your ressources should concentrate on the next step
The second reason for their silence: If you want to create something big, then you don't reveal any information too early because you want to keep your freedom which is essential on a big project. So you have the freedom to change/delete something without having the fear that the community will be mad at you because you revealed this "deleted/changed feature".
==> Assumption 2) Something big is on the way...

Fact C)
The harsh truth which caused lot's of negative and unpleasant discussions in this forum: The playerbase keeps shrinking for the last years.. drastically. Shootmania is literally a graveyard.. where the only people are visitors of the dead people. Elite has 6 players at the same time and the casual scene not much more. Trackmania is holding up more or less thanks to ZeRator and his cups. But right now, Trackmania is just a small shade compared to its glorious past.
Maniaplanet simply didn't succeed and if you keep "failing", then you get a bad image. Once you have a bad image, it gets worse and worse to attract new players or even those who left (The core players). To solve this issue, you have to get rid of the old and start something new. And that's the reason why I assume that Nadeo is working on something new. Something new to attract core and new players and for marketing purposes "We have learned our lesson, let's try something new".
==> Assumption 3) Something new is coming

Fact A) + F)
Why would Nadeo keep pushing new updates with improvements to the overall system and even implementing new features like the competition tool if they want to "abandon" Maniaplanet in the near future?

I guess they want to improve Maniaplanet so they can use this knowledge for their next engine/system. So Maniaplanet serves like a "experimental playfield" for the devs. It's very clever in my opinion. Because they use their new skills on an "old project" (Maniaplanet) and use the players as beta testers without revealing what they are actually working on. If you don't understand, here is an example: A wood worker found a new technique to improve a table's ability to carry weight. The wood worker provides his client to adjust the table for free on a table that the client bought a while ago. The client is happy that the wood worker does it for free and the wood worker is happy because he has a free "tester" to test his new skill for his upcoming, better table.
Additionally, we had no (major) graphic update for the last 10years since Maniaplanet was released… So it’s pretty possible that we might see a new engine or just a new platform
==> Assumption 4) New engine / platform

All assumptions listed up
  • Assumption 1) Keeping TM/SM/QM concept, QM as last game
  • Assumption 2) Something big is on the way...
  • Assumption 3) Something new is coming (out from Maniaplanet)
  • Assumption 4) New engine / platform
My final idea
It's not very easy to come up with something based on these assumptions. But I want to be as safe as possible.

So, I think we will have a new engine with new graphics. A new launcher with a new name (maybe something like ManiaUniverse :roflol: ), where you can chose between TM & SM before you even start the game (Like Blizzard-launcher as N-jin suggested). More focus on the multiplayer aspect (that's why they released the competition management tool). Clearer and simpler interface (Maniaplanet was so messy because it simply provided too much). And to make full use of the marketing, an announcement of a new environment... probably for Shootmania because SM only offers 1 environment while TM does 4.
I think it's really much more about clearing everything up and making it more accessible for everyone while still providing a strong creative side with all it's amazing tools. Key words: Optimisation, simplification, new chance

My final words
I hope you can understand everything what I've said and you can relate to it. Thanks for reading everything and now it's YOUR turn to show us your "ideas" of what Nadeo is gonna surprise us in the future! :pop:


Re: Nadeo's next project

Posted: 14 Aug 2019, 12:13
by Miss
This is a good summed up thread! (You shouldn't worry, there's no reason to close this thread - the threads that have been closed on this same topic have only been closed because they're mostly 1 paragraph threads asking Nadeo directly what they're working on, sometimes with some negativity attached to it, etc.)

Thanks for the thread! :thumbsup: Maybe now we have a thread to merge future threads into :P

Re: Nadeo's next project

Posted: 14 Aug 2019, 13:26
by Soprah
Thanks for your nice words Miss! :thumbsup:

Glad to see that my work pays off. :)

Re: Nadeo's next project

Posted: 14 Aug 2019, 14:38
by TMarc
Intersting post, but it is not all right!

Regarding F) you are totally wrong.

A lot has happened in the past 10 years! Ans you know that yourself pretty much!

Only with Maniaplanet:
After Canyon, the titles were introduced.
And the channels.
There were several new UIs, we are now with version 4 of the main application.

With Trackmania 2:
There were new blocks presented at different points in time:
water and trees in Canyon
underground blocks and new "action" blocks (boosters, bumpers etc.) in Stadium
There was Valley and later Lagoon.
Also the base engine was ported to DirectX 11.
There was the support for custom titles introduced.

There was Trackmania Turbo, which is also based on Maniaplanet.

And there was Shootmania, as totally new kind of game, and which has seen lots of modifications as well.

If it is not all this, then what do you mean exactly by:
f) No graphical updates for the last 10years
I think that you are about to make some people angry at Nadeo who are working all the time on graphical stuff... Namely Fix, LuckyBoy, and all the block and item modelers... And all the others at Nadeo who could think that you are blaming them for doing nothing!

Nadeo / Ubisoft will tell us new things at the time they think it is the right time.
Always begging for news and new stuff does not work here ;)

Re: Nadeo's next project

Posted: 14 Aug 2019, 15:22
by Soprah

I think I should have written "No major graphic for the last 10 years".
There were indeed some graphical updates. The UI changed greatly. Much more modern indeed. And I also remember the update when the Shootmania missiles got new looks (like 5 years ago).

I know that a lot has happened. But nearly everything that you mentioned has nothing to do with graphical improvement except for the new UI.
New blocks != graphical improvement. It's rather releasing new content based on the same engine aka graphics.
New environments != graphical improvement. They all share the same graphics because they are from the same engine. Ok, I am sure that the engine improved a bit whenever a new environment was released... but that's not significant: If we compare the oldest Trackmania 2 environment (canyon) with the newest environment based on Maniaplanet (lagoon) then I see no graphical update. They look gorgeous, without doubt!! I love them. But from a gamer's perspective, I see no difference. BUT if I compare Trackmania Rally with Trackmania² Valley, then I see indeed a great graphical improvement. Do you know what I mean now?
I see a pattern: Nadeo's first Trackmania was released around 2003. Maniaplanet was released 2011 with Canyon I think. So 8 years difference. Now we have 2019 and the last "major update" was with 2011. So it's 8 years difference again. That's one of the reasons why I think it's time for a new or improved engine :)

And.. I don't want to make anybody angry. Neither I want to beg for information. I just want to analyse on the given facts that I searched across this forum with great effort. If Nadeo wants to reveal something, then I wouldn't mind. But I don't force/beg them or anything.. that's not my style ;)


Re: Nadeo's next project

Posted: 14 Aug 2019, 15:59
by Miss
To be honest, I agree with TMarc, when MP4 came out it already improved a lot of the graphics (hell, we even went from DX9 to DX11), which was back in 2017. (Actually, Turbo was DX11, so technically we had a graphics update in 2016, too!)

I'm not sure what more you expect to change visually, honestly. I think most of the "graphical" updates will be content-based updates rather than actual graphics engine updates.

Re: Nadeo's next project

Posted: 19 Aug 2019, 03:28
by Toninus
I just hope to see an announcement at the Gamecom tomorrow.
I'd say probability is 30%.
Otherwise the game will probably be for the next generation consoles (and PC of course) and will be announced next year.
Chances for a reveal at the Paris Gaming Week or at the Video Game Awards seems low to me.

Re: Nadeo's next project

Posted: 20 Aug 2019, 16:41
by oiram456
Toninus wrote:
19 Aug 2019, 03:28
Chances for a reveal at the Paris Gaming Week or at the Video Game Awards seems low to me.
The chances for a reveal at PGW seems much higher than GC, since its a french company and they cooperated with PGW quite a few times in the past. But since its a big major thing and since they belong to ubisoft i wouldnt expect something before E3 2020 since that would have the most impact on the press and players (+ more time)

Re: Nadeo's next project

Posted: 01 Oct 2019, 17:03
by tymson
PGW started today so maybe we will se something interesting from Nadeo/Ubi :thumbsup:

Re: Nadeo's next project

Posted: 01 Oct 2019, 18:26
by riolu
PGW starts in a month