About a XAseco for ShootMania

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Xymph
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About a XAseco for ShootMania

Post by Xymph » 15 Jul 2012, 11:58

People keep PM-ing me about XAseco for ShootMania, so I might as well post (a long version of) the answer publicly.

I have no plans to build a XAseco version for SM, or adapt XAseco2 (which is focused on TM2C) to SM. Partly this is because I have little interest in multiplayer FPS games (I prefer good story-based single-player FPSes), partly due to personal reasons that mean I cannot spend as much time on this whole Mania hobby as I have in the past 5-6 years. Life moves on, but I'll continue to support XAseco1/2, my various tools, XAseco.org and my hub pages.

So, for people looking for a SM server controller now, I recommend using one that already supports SM, such as ManiaLive/MLEPP or FoxControl. But it's also possible one or more developers will port XAseco2 to SM. That's fine, that's the nature of open source projects.

I just request that:
- such a port is coordinated, so that there won't be multiple different variants.
- the port is called something else, not XAseco[2]. E.g. SMAseco?
- all code not relevant to SM (e.g. local and Dedimania records handling) is stripped before release of the port.
- the port doesn't support TM2C, leave that to XAseco2.
- the GPL and credits for unchanged code are preserved.

Thanks.
Last edited by Xymph on 20 Jul 2012, 07:14, edited 1 time in total.
Developer of XASECO for TMF/TMN ESWC & XASECO2 for TM²: see XAseco.org
Find your way around the Mania community from the TMN ESWC hub, TMF hub, TM² hub, and SM hub

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ManiacTwister
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Re: About a XAseco for ShootMania

Post by ManiacTwister » 15 Jul 2012, 23:24

Uh, thats sad, but it's your decision which we have to respect.

I'm working on my own controler currently for my servers(https://github.com/ManiacTwister/Mania-C-ontrol), but i think i'm intresting in porting XAseco for SM. But wouldn't it be better if you and the one who are working on the SMAseco port using a svn-system (maybe git or so) to keep everything updated. I think there should be no problem if SMAseco and XAseco2 keep one tool, shouldn't it?
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TheM
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Re: About a XAseco for ShootMania

Post by TheM » 15 Jul 2012, 23:39

ManiacTwister wrote:Uh, thats sad, but it's your decision which we have to respect.

I'm working on my own controler currently for my servers(https://github.com/ManiacTwister/Mania-C-ontrol), but i think i'm intresting in porting XAseco for SM. But wouldn't it be better if you and the one who are working on the SMAseco port using a svn-system (maybe git or so) to keep everything updated. I think there should be no problem if SMAseco and XAseco2 keep one tool, shouldn't it?
I'd like to react on your post, since I have a different point of view.
XAseco2 and SMAseco should not be one system. You then get things like with the dedicated: updates required for one game, but totally useless for the other. (Please correct me if I understood you wrong...)

Personally, as hoster/maintainer of 2 TM2 and 2 SM servers and developer of a "tool" for SM servers, I don't see the need of an XAseco port for ShootMania.
Everyone wants to use Aseco, but why...? Cause everyone used it in TrackMania... but isn't now the time to look around and look for other possibilities?
Aseco is clearly written for a race game. Yes, I have to agree that some parts also apply on a shooter.
But I think that if you just look at other projedts, that they have much potential and your time might be better spend on helping out those projects instead of porting an controller for a race server to a shooter.

Those are just my two cents.
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ManiacTwister
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Re: About a XAseco for ShootMania

Post by ManiacTwister » 16 Jul 2012, 00:02

TheM wrote:XAseco2 and SMAseco should not be one system. You then get things like with the dedicated: updates required for one game, but totally useless for the other. (Please correct me if I understood you wrong...)
But manialive is doing it the same way, doesn't it?
TheM wrote: Personally, as hoster/maintainer of 2 TM2 and 2 SM servers and developer of a "tool" for SM servers, I don't see the need of an XAseco port for ShootMania.
Everyone wants to use Aseco, but why...? Cause everyone used it in TrackMania... but isn't now the time to look around and look for other possibilities?
I think there is a big need for a XAseco for shootmania. I personally don't like manialive - its really performant, but in my eyes it is totally user-unfriendly.
Foxcontrol is a nice tool, which needs and deserves more attention for sure. But for me, as a serveradmin and developer which used xaseco many years neither manialive nor foxcontrol is a real replacement for it ;) Also i don't want to use "different" controlers for my tmf, tm2, sm and qm servers.
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TheM
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Re: About a XAseco for ShootMania

Post by TheM » 16 Jul 2012, 08:57

ManiacTwister wrote:
TheM wrote:XAseco2 and SMAseco should not be one system. You then get things like with the dedicated: updates required for one game, but totally useless for the other. (Please correct me if I understood you wrong...)
But manialive is doing it the same way, doesn't it?
I'm not confinced about that. ManiaLive only provises a framework for plugins, while Aseco already does stuff with the things it recieves from the server
ManiacTwister wrote:
TheM wrote: Personally, as hoster/maintainer of 2 TM2 and 2 SM servers and developer of a "tool" for SM servers, I don't see the need of an XAseco port for ShootMania.
Everyone wants to use Aseco, but why...? Cause everyone used it in TrackMania... but isn't now the time to look around and look for other possibilities?
I think there is a big need for a XAseco for shootmania. I personally don't like manialive - its really performant, but in my eyes it is totally user-unfriendly.
Foxcontrol is a nice tool, which needs and deserves more attention for sure. But for me, as a serveradmin and developer which used xaseco many years neither manialive nor foxcontrol is a real replacement for it ;) Also i don't want to use "different" controlers for my tmf, tm2, sm and qm servers.
What is that big need then? And don't just say that ManiaLive is user-unfriendly, but tell us please why.
And: you can't have a real replacement for Aseco on ShootMania... I think you have to change so much, that it will be a completely different product.
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TGYoshi
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Re: About a XAseco for ShootMania

Post by TGYoshi » 16 Jul 2012, 12:35

TheM wrote: And don't just say that ManiaLive is user-unfriendly, but tell us please why.
It's a harash to code in, the plain reason for me to not use it.
Xaseco was a much better alternative as it was simple and straight-forward to use. You could start coding quite rapidly, and as an end-user, installing Xaseco and plugins is easier then in ManiaLive.
ManiaLive also requires more then Xaseco does, it required you to change stuff in the PHP config etc.

For me that wasn't a huge problem, installation, but for most it is.

Summarized;
Xaseco is a lot easier to use, simpler. That's why people prefer (X)Aseco.
Xaseco is a lot easier to develop in, faster to begin in. That's why many (not all) casual developers prefer (X)Aseco.
Xaseco has a lot more plugins as a result of this. That's why people prefer Xaseco.

Blabla.

But I didn't say yet that I've never been using ManiaLive a lot, so I might miss some epic things ManiaLive has and (X)Aseco doesn't. If so, please tell the world so I can change my opinion.
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Re: About a XAseco for ShootMania

Post by killer606 » 16 Jul 2012, 15:05

TGYoshi wrote:
TheM wrote: And don't just say that ManiaLive is user-unfriendly, but tell us please why.
It's a harash to code in, the plain reason for me to not use it.
Xaseco was a much better alternative as it was simple and straight-forward to use. You could start coding quite rapidly, and as an end-user, installing Xaseco and plugins is easier then in ManiaLive.
ManiaLive also requires more then Xaseco does, it required you to change stuff in the PHP config etc.

For me that wasn't a huge problem, installation, but for most it is.

Summarized;
Xaseco is a lot easier to use, simpler. That's why people prefer (X)Aseco.
Xaseco is a lot easier to develop in, faster to begin in. That's why many (not all) casual developers prefer (X)Aseco.
Xaseco has a lot more plugins as a result of this. That's why people prefer Xaseco.

Blabla.

But I didn't say yet that I've never been using ManiaLive a lot, so I might miss some epic things ManiaLive has and (X)Aseco doesn't. If so, please tell the world so I can change my opinion.
+1 :1010

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TheM
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Re: About a XAseco for ShootMania

Post by TheM » 16 Jul 2012, 18:40

TGYoshi wrote:
TheM wrote: And don't just say that ManiaLive is user-unfriendly, but tell us please why.
It's a harash to code in, the plain reason for me to not use it.
Xaseco was a much better alternative as it was simple and straight-forward to use. You could start coding quite rapidly, and as an end-user, installing Xaseco and plugins is easier then in ManiaLive.
ManiaLive also requires more then Xaseco does, it required you to change stuff in the PHP config etc.

For me that wasn't a huge problem, installation, but for most it is.

Summarized;
Xaseco is a lot easier to use, simpler. That's why people prefer (X)Aseco.
Xaseco is a lot easier to develop in, faster to begin in. That's why many (not all) casual developers prefer (X)Aseco.
Xaseco has a lot more plugins as a result of this. That's why people prefer Xaseco.

Blabla.

But I didn't say yet that I've never been using ManiaLive a lot, so I might miss some epic things ManiaLive has and (X)Aseco doesn't. If so, please tell the world so I can change my opinion.
But why is it difficult to code in? Cause I think it's pretty straightforward. Furthermore, there is a nice documentation for starting developers.
And isn't it also true that people want to code Aseco plugins because many people use Aseco?
Maybe now might be the time for plugin developers to look around and choose a different controller...
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ManiacTwister
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Re: About a XAseco for ShootMania

Post by ManiacTwister » 16 Jul 2012, 18:46

I think everyone should decide himself which tool he wan'ts to use.
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Re: About a XAseco for ShootMania

Post by TheM » 16 Jul 2012, 19:42

ManiacTwister wrote:I think everyone should decide himself which tool he wan'ts to use.
That's a good point :)
I wouldn't mind having an Aseco for ShootMania, I would love to participate...
I only don't see the real need for it ...
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