Hitbox & laser display

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Hylis
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Hitbox & laser display

Post by Hylis » 26 May 2014, 13:07

Here are some pictures to better understand how the hitbox is, as well as how the laser can be displayed.

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Hitbox_800.jpg
Laser_800.jpg
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Omnixor
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Re: Hitbox & laser display

Post by Omnixor » 26 May 2014, 13:34

looks imprecise to say the least. anyway, thx for info.
- staff head of ESL TM²Stadium -

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Hylis
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Re: Hitbox & laser display

Post by Hylis » 26 May 2014, 13:46

If things are done like this, there are good reason, and especially in an network environment with many other parameters.
For example:
- if we would display the laser exactly how it is fired, you would just see the crosshair blinking.
- if you would have to take into account the frame of the animation to hit precisely the poplygon of the feet or not, it may become so chaotic that you would see it as 'not precise' as well. More especially if you add the ping question.
- If we would enable to always display the hitbox, players would rather display it to increase performance, but for less interest of playing against cylinder.
etc.

I think of eventually displaying floating particules around the players to provide a source of real time information on the hitbox, but I can't tell if we will test it soon.

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Re: Hitbox & laser display

Post by novationx » 26 May 2014, 13:47

Hey Hylis, ty a lot for this information... It will help the community to understand better. :thumbsup:

I would like to ask if these hitboxes are final? Maybe this will be something that you dont like to hear, but I havent experienced better hitboxes after the update. For me its +- the same.
I still cant hit enemies in the feet and , new since the update, I miss a lot of headshots. ( I've tested/confirmed this on standing still enemies. )

I think the 3-dot-laser also enlarges the problem of an inaccurate hitbox. It creates the illusion that the hitboxes are even worse.

Anyways, as I said before, for me the biggest problem with SM isnt the hitboxes, but ofc it would be better to have a perfect hitbox.
Please keep on improving the hitboxes NADEO^^

Why not hitboxes as in CSGO? Every part of the body = 1 hitbox.
CSS hitbox : http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/9366 ... tboxes.png
Just by looking at this picture you know its much more accurate.


Other questions that come to mind:
The head is in the hitbox ( on your screen ) so why is it unhittable?
The feet are in the hitbox ( on your screen ) so why is it unhittable? ( standing still stormman )
NADEO y u do diz? :oops: #MP4

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Hylis
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Re: Hitbox & laser display

Post by Hylis » 26 May 2014, 14:09

tx

The new hitbox is not bigger. It's wider on feet and smaller on head. About the 3-lasers, it's better for consistency now, because the previous sphere were having small empty space intersection on the side of the character.

For one hitbox per body part, you have to depend of everything, including introducing client lag compensation. Our approach is much closer than quake. Like I wrote below the picture, the hitbox depends of the server side location and is independant of the animations, custom models, client lags etc.

Ping + laser display + hitbox independant from animation makes all of this more difficult to see, but what is really important is that there is only one thruth, the one of the server, and that if the player was at one place, at one time, and that shoot here, it will hit, whatever is the situation of the network, players, modes rotation or else. Less parameters and tweaks for more predictability of the players himself is better in my oppinion. Only this way you can really anticipate without realying on netcode tricks.

To asnwer you other questions, you would need to help me with screens. But maybe you can use the laser default crosshair to see the three dots and check if they are all inside the hitbox I displayed. The feet can be more easily before, and the head now.

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Re: Hitbox & laser display

Post by novationx » 26 May 2014, 14:12

And how can a player experience the most true situation? Its all about your internet connection + the server your playing on? :)
NADEO y u do diz? :oops: #MP4

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Hylis
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Re: Hitbox & laser display

Post by Hylis » 26 May 2014, 14:50

Internet connection will only decrease your quality of perception, but the thruth is that if at 18h00 & 0ms, you pressed the forward key, for 300 ms, it will be taken into account like this, as long as you are under the sdt. the opponent ping will not have an impact on how you are, where you are, etc. with some lag compensation, you can hide behind a wall and be hit, because the other players is seeing you like this no his screen. There, if you are behind the wall, you are, for him, for the bullet etc. It does not mean that you can see perfectly where you are or even where are the opponents, sinec there is network, but it means that you can play & predict like the physic is made, more than the visual uncertainty that is link to the required fairness of the netcode

dannce
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Re: Hitbox & laser display

Post by dannce » 01 Jun 2014, 11:11

Can someone explain the trilaser thing? What I'm guessing is:

It's instead of a beam of 1 pixel, it's a beam of 3 pixels. A hit is registered if two beams intersect the hitbox. And the three small dots in the default laser cross-hair denote the paths of the 3 beams at very close range.

Is any of this correct? Just want to be sure. :)


Also, could nadeo bring out a custom skin in which the default storm-man skin is superposed by a semi-transparent box that is, in case of low snap and low acceleration of players, the same as the hitbox? Just to try stuff out.


Also, maybe it would be nice that if a laser shot misses by less then 10cm the hit box, at the time of the shot, would light up for a short time? Is that possible? Because this showing of information is static (movement not being relevant) I there shouldn't be any problems with regard to net-code lag right? I think it would make watching games more exciting, and it would give players better insight of what is going on in the server.


Also, I just reread your post and this
I think of eventually displaying floating particules around the players to provide a source of real time information on the hitbox, but I can't tell if we will test it soon.
sounds very exciting! I'm sure NADEO will find a way to show information of the hitbox in an appealing way.


For me Shootmania is a game about geometry and precision, in which players race around levels in order to tag other players. Utilizing the hitbox as a shield which needs to be tagged would greatly improve the nature/philosophy of the game, and would set it better apart from other more realism oriented shooters.

novationx
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Re: Hitbox & laser display

Post by novationx » 01 Jun 2014, 11:59

u need to aim the 3dots of the original crosshair on the enemy. Thats a hit. ( in theory :D )
NADEO y u do diz? :oops: #MP4

whizz
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Re: Hitbox & laser display

Post by whizz » 02 Jun 2014, 14:52

Hi,

Thx a lot for this information.

it's possible to create hitbox like this ?
http://misc.team-aaa.com/perso_KeiroN/cssh.jpg

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