Hitbox & laser display

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dannce
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Re: Hitbox & laser display

Post by dannce » 02 Jun 2014, 15:41

whizz wrote:Hi,

Thx a lot for this information.

it's possible to create hitbox like this ?
http://misc.team-aaa.com/perso_KeiroN/cssh.jpg
Because of the time it takes for the server to communicate with the client, and the time it takes for the server to compute things the hitbox as seen on your screen will not be at the same position as on the server. Here are some videos showing this effect for shootmania from before the update and from CS:GO:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVj020Vpai8
http://youtu.be/Z6fMaJirqpM?t=4m50s
These movies where created by combining both the client side and the server side replays of a match.

If the game would use a very detailed hitbox, then this effect would be very huge and the hitbox would only work properly if each player stood still. For a game as shootmania where movement is fast and aiming precise this effect needs to be as small as possible, this is achieved by using very simple hitboxes.

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Hylis
Nadeo
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Re: Hitbox & laser display

Post by Hylis » 02 Jun 2014, 15:44

quite good answer

to add to, if you would like this precises hitbox, you should do with some disadvantages on the other side, such as lag compensation, no custom skin, opponent ping stronger dependancies, probably more prone to cheating etc. Id took some decisions, Valve took others. I believe that first choice is better for the type of game we are doing and that second is better for hitscan/simulation based gameplay. With lag compensation, everybody is in a different time space. My orientation here is to make the world unique for everybody, and true to the physic of it.

Netcode is dealing with imperfection of ping. Two people playing with a lag of information. It's impossible to make it perfect, just because of that. After, it depends how players lives with this and what type of trick they accept: being hit even if it's wrong, see something different from a single reality or accept that others see you in another reality for you to see them where you computer would like to see them. You can find some debate to illustrate some difference in approachs, like here for example: http://www.esreality.com/post/2313076/n ... p-cpma-ql/

whizz
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Joined: 02 Jun 2014, 14:21

Re: Hitbox & laser display

Post by whizz » 02 Jun 2014, 16:26

Thk for your answers.

I play with 10-15 ping. I see of 40-50 snapshot (average). if snapshot exceeds 60, the feeling is completely different from "my reality".
Sometime, i see the hit in the area of ​​the hitbox, and I cry. "fu *** hitbox"... :D

Is there any plans to fix the netcode to approximate rendering like "zeroping" for the player?

Sorry for my bad english :)

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Hylis
Nadeo
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Re: Hitbox & laser display

Post by Hylis » 02 Jun 2014, 17:02

it's netvision that you should now look if you would like to know how much delay you have

if you want zero ping, it means that it's your client that is deciding if you hit or not, somehow, and that's unlikely to be the shared reality. And if you would like a different one, you should accept that other hit you even if you are not where you are, for example. you can not win on both side.

whizz
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Re: Hitbox & laser display

Post by whizz » 02 Jun 2014, 22:12

If I understand, actualy with little latency hitbox does not fully cover the skin that we have on the customer display. And with high NetVision this is more true ?

With this other problem : minijump unfair, pole area abused (i think due hitbox and latence)... it makes the game really random.

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phil13hebert
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Re: Hitbox & laser display

Post by phil13hebert » 02 Jun 2014, 23:07

I'm not very good when it comes to hitboxes, but I have a question about it :
Why can't the hitbox always be where we see the player locally ? Cause for now, when we have lagg, we need to shoot behind a player to hit him. That's not "user-friendly" at all.
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Omnixor
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Re: Hitbox & laser display

Post by Omnixor » 03 Jun 2014, 08:53

because when you see player1 in a certain place, for himself player1 is already in another place (because of ping). if you shot him in the head e.g., for him his head would be further already, and it would be unfair for him to get eliminated.
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novationx
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Re: Hitbox & laser display

Post by novationx » 03 Jun 2014, 10:54

Exactly omnixor. It has to be fair for both of you.
On your monitor u shoot on his head, on his monitor he was already behind a wall.
So what ur asking would be impossible. It needs to be balanced.

What exactly is the job of snapshotdelta? And still when 1 player laggs, everybody laggs. Why is this still in place?
NADEO y u do diz? :oops: #MP4

whizz
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Re: Hitbox & laser display

Post by whizz » 03 Jun 2014, 11:50

in my opinion :) is better without snapshot...like all other FPS... and still when 1 player laggs, 1 player and events with this player laggs.

Today, internet connections are increasingly fast.

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Hylis
Nadeo
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Re: Hitbox & laser display

Post by Hylis » 03 Jun 2014, 13:33

novationx wrote:What exactly is the job of snapshotdelta? And still when 1 player laggs, everybody laggs. Why is this still in place?
If two people would like to take the quad damage at the same time, what will be the delay before you can tell who won it? it's the SDT. If you would like to know at what speed you see the reality, it's now netvision you should look after. Someone with a low ping will not cause you trouble on that, but if he wants the quad damage at the same time as you, you will have to wait for the referee: the server, to say it's ok.

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