New pack map election system

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Nanoushkaa
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New pack map election system

Post by Nanoushkaa » 05 Sep 2014, 14:38

French translation: http://forum.maniaplanet.com/viewtopic. ... 59&start=0
(Suevey on French post)

Today, nothing is done to manage the map pack. No site centralized, no jury, on vocal, on Facebook or on a forum, and a few people decide. Even if they are sometimes questionable choices, they at least do something. But how do you have a correct and fair choice, and offer players a quality map pack?

The idea is to set up a website (depending Nadeo or not) based on the same goal as the "star-mania". A voting system, linked to ManiaPlanet account. Players will have to vote in a choice of map proposed by a jury of 9 people, we call this pack of map a package. This package will include between 12 and X Maps.

Still in the concept of a map pack maps to 9, they'll change every three months. The idea is to think in terms of season (Summer, Winter, Fall, Spring), taking 21 as release date (September / December / March / June), it will permit a simple communication, and provide a clear solution (example: This competition will use the "Summer pack 2014"). Each new season, a new pack comes out, and will be effective for 3 months, the current season.

About change map, it will be at 6 remaining map, and 3 map outgoing. This change will be made by a vote directly on the site (with the possible addition of a plug-in game), and each vote for 3 map that will want to see stay, and 3 map it would like out. Note : map "out" will simply be returned to the map package, and may well be darn next season. Also notable, no map can not stay more than a year in the pack, and will automatically go back into the package, and will also be voted on again next season. This is part of a rotation policy to keep the dynamic of the game, without a cross on a very good map.


To avoid having a package with too many choices, two rules apply.
  • 1. First, each map was not played for six months (ie two seasons), out of the package. If she wants to be re-proposed, it will be updated, and go through the jury.

    2 Second, a mapper can offer only map a month to prevent hegemony same designer in the same pack.



Each mapper will have two dates to propose a map: 21 day pack output (the previous season) and 21 of the following month (Example: For the Fall pack released on September 21, Mr. X can proser a map to the jury on September 21, and October 21, to get into the package, and so hope to be in the Winter pack). 3-day period may be granted to file a map. Those that will be filed on the first day will be validated by 1 month (or not), and those filed on the first month will be validated the 2nd month (or not).

21 of the second month after the release of the pack, voting will begin to refer to map 3 'in', and 3 map "out" (example: November 21, no map can be proposed, the map approved by the jury emerge in the package, and will be tested by the players, and on December 21, the new pack will be released, with the choice of the players). Jurors will be two months to validate the map, and players a month to select the new pack.

The jury in turn will form 9 people, whose composition will like this (do not forget that the purpose of the jury is to be as diverse as possible, while maintaining a certain level of Selection):
  • 1. At least 33% international, and 33% of French speaker (not French people).
    2. Only one player per line up is allowed, if ever there is a change of team and two players / jury finds combinations, one will have to leave (and if they do not decide, the most recent must go)
    3. There should be at least two people involved in regular competition (ESL type LeetGamerZ) Or Streamer (as they are in contact with many players, it will be very important on general feedback).
    4. There must be at least 33% of player who has already do ​​the ESWC (FR or WR)
    5. There must be at least 33% of player who has already created a map residing or being found on a map pack official Elite

Example Jury:
FR: 0/3 - INTER: 0/3 - ESWC: 0/3 - CUP: 0/2 - MAP: 0/3

Kryw (ESWC 1/3 + MAP 1/3 + FR 1/3)
Soon (ESWC 2/3 + FR 2/3)
Dreamy (1/2 CUP + INTER 1/3)
Kommu (MAP 2/3 + 2/3 FR)
Bervt (CUP 2/2 + 2/3 MAP + FR 3/3)
Sens (3/3 ESWC + INTER 2/3)
Wabbitface (MAP 3/3 + 3/3 INTER)
All conditions are already met, and two people
can be added as long as they are not part of the same up.
Jodebra
PapyChampy


Jury members will give their opinion on the map on a platform, such as a forum or a tool specially created for the occasion, for all the proposed map. Each member will decide if it can be validated or not. If the map more than 66% (6 votes so on 9), the map will return in the package, otherwise the designer will be notified and will re-propose its map has the following selection of course changed with advice from members the jury. If a map is proposed by a member of the jury, he shall not be entitled voted for its own map, but it will still need six votes to be validated (the jury must make quality!)

Jurors will first be appointed in view of their motivation, their game, their creativity and their availability. They will each have the opportunity to present their candidature to the forum.


_____________________



Of course, I welcome your feedback and ideas.

novationx
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Re: New pack map election system

Post by novationx » 05 Sep 2014, 15:10

Why a website? Why not directly ingame?
Also I propse to keep 5 maps & add 4 new ones. ( 6-3 is too conservative )

Everything else sounds nice :thumbsup:

Also : Read this
The neverending waiting game has to stop.

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Wabbitface
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Re: New pack map election system

Post by Wabbitface » 31 Oct 2014, 02:29

I fully approve of this topic being discussed on, it's important that we improve map selection and approval. In my opinion I find many flaws with the suggestions you made.
  • Not enough good maps are being produced, I know in Paragon League we are struggling with even updating one map every month, updating 3 spots (4 times a year) will be the same. Say if a really good map is released right after the summer mappack release, it will have to wait so long till the next mappack and players will be less likely to pick it because it's not something new to them.
  • Also notable, no map can not stay more than a year in the pack, and will automatically go back into the package, and will also be voted on again next season. This is part of a rotation policy to keep the dynamic of the game, without a cross on a very good map.
  • To be honest I don't think this will be effective enough. I understand the problem but if the map gets voted back in, the problem still exists.
  • For the Jury I suggest that it does not contain map makers, this includes myself as I would feel forced to select all my own maps to get the best chance of my map getting into the pool. We need an unbiased jury which would have to consist of high level players (elite players if map pool for that gamemode). Any jury member who is not familiar enough with high level elite play wouldn't be that useful.
  • If the jury consists of what would be preferred, there needs to be something else added into the system to hide all useless maps that defiantly don't have a chance of becoming competitive and I'm pretty sure the pro's wouldn't want to go through all the hard work of rejecting bad maps.
    Warning - I am going to be strictly straight with my opinions here:

    Kryw - High level player and map maker = Good Map analysis but Biased decisions
    Soon - High level player = Good map analysis and can suggest better ideas
    Dreammy - High level player, has different preferences in maps = different from other jury is better
    Kommu - Low level player I think and a map maker = Biased decisions or just not enough experience
    Bervt - Low level player & map maker = (Same as above)
    Sens - High level player = Good map analysis and can suggest better ideas
    Wabbitface - Map maker = Biased decisions
    Jodebra - (Same as above)
    PapyChampy - Low level player = Not enough experience


    I'd take out 6 of the 9 proposed jury due to the fact together they are more likely to create a corrupt mappack. I suggest adding more high level players that have different views or ideas of what the mappack should consist of.
Liam 'Wabbitface' Watson
ShootMania Shout-caster
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dovahk1n
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Re: New pack map election system

Post by dovahk1n » 31 Oct 2014, 11:34

Papychampi created the firsts map in shootmania such as Collided or TheCastle. I don't think he's unexperienced.

Cuts
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Re: New pack map election system

Post by Cuts » 31 Oct 2014, 14:06

I would rather be playing on maps designed by high-level elite players like Kryw than playing on maps which are made by random players.

As a general rule, higher skilled players make better maps, there's no getting away from that as they actually put thought into the blocking of the maps. There are reasons behind their mapping choices other than cosmetic / blind creativeness. The maps flow better as a result.

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Wabbitface
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Re: New pack map election system

Post by Wabbitface » 01 Nov 2014, 03:31

It's not about what maps are made, they will be made anyway and the chances are the best maps are more likely to be made by high level elite players. What matters is who chooses the maps is making decisions unbiased way and the best people for that job are not the mapmakers themselves but other high level players that will be playing those maps in cups.

I'm pretty sure players like kryw will continue to makes maps even if he is not part of 'the jury' and a couple of his good maps will probably get submitted for voting anyway if they are good.


Edit: Forgot to reply
dovahk1n wrote:Papychampi created the firsts map in shootmania such as Collided or TheCastle. I don't think he's unexperienced.
On one side I'd agree with you, but that time the editor had much more simpler but movement friendly blocks, most of the new ones added in recent updates have been horrible for movement and papychampi has done what he can to introduce these blocks in new maps, but in a way (imo) has kinda ruined the map's play style for competitive and fluidity in movement. But again we keep steering towards map makers being the ones who decide what becomes official. Surely the experienced players themselves are the best decision-makers.
Liam 'Wabbitface' Watson
ShootMania Shout-caster
Specs | Intel i5-3570k @ 3.80GHz | 16GB 2400MHz | Nvidia GTX 780 | Win10.1 64bit | Asus Maximus V Formula

Nanoushkaa
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Re: New pack map election system

Post by Nanoushkaa » 11 Nov 2014, 12:32

yo all, thx for aswering, and sorry for the delay of mine.
Why a website? Why not directly ingame?
Also I propse to keep 5 maps & add 4 new ones. ( 6-3 is too conservative )

Everything else sounds nice :thumbsup:
Because we must create a strong entity, a identity to make this "legal". A plugin in game can be made, of course (w1lla already works on this).

6/3 is better for lot of things. 3 multiples, 1/3 is new, there are bo3, 3 players, etc. Keep the 3 spirit ;)




@Wabbitface : In paragon map pack of your Match Making, there are maybe 15 maps. So enough map are ready to be play to make a good base, and make this roll-up every seasons. The goal here is to make a dynamic pack map, and to let a chance to the new map. They will be look in priority, and if this news map aren't good enough, the old will be choose. It's maybe the same maps in the end, but it's dynamic. And the mapper must to work and think about this dynamic pack, and post their maps a the good moment.

Have mapmaker on jury is not a problem for me. They will have influence what ever their position. The important thing for me is not to make a "group" of decision, to have a strong vote (if you know what i mean). And a top player will see quickly if a map can be competitive or not. And is a jury job. There are 300 players on elite, we cant make 1 jury to prepare the work to another.

I has say : " a mapper can offer only map a month to prevent hegemony same designer in the same pack.", and by extension, flooding. So every mapper have 1 map per month, force the mapper to be sure of their choice.

And the jury must be choose with lot of precaution, and intelligence.




But the real question is : how make mania maps happen

novationx
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Re: New pack map election system

Post by novationx » 11 Nov 2014, 13:27

Another website runned by temporarily NADEO fanboys.
Until they give up in 1-2years and the website turns into garbage.

I would like to see this integrated into the game and made with the help of NADEO.
The neverending waiting game has to stop.

bervt
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Re: New pack map election system

Post by bervt » 11 Nov 2014, 15:58

Hi

On the previous mappack they have been a lot of error problem and other stuff .So to not have them i m working to make some strict rules who will agree by player of course .

(as a example )

1st : We need admin , and Tester who vote
-->admin : Don't vote (they can if tester cannot made a decision ) , can test , can give advise , propose some change ext ... and can map if they want .+Gestion of the tester ( tell them to work in fact ^^)
-->Tester: same as admin but can vote and cannot map .
Now the choice of the tester :
Nanoushkaa wrote:Have mapmaker on jury is not a problem for me. They will have influence what ever their position.
Wabbitface wrote:Surely the experienced players themselves are the best decision-makers.
Cuts wrote:I would rather be playing on maps designed by high-level elite players like Kryw than playing on maps which are made by random players.
The problem with experimented player is that there is not a lot of mapper (if i look at the ESWC team there was only kryw for me) so yes they can give good advise but that don't make them mapper .
The other problem that the player and the map is like have political stuff like in USA , Conservative player and democrat player , please to all is mostly impossible ...
One solution is the have mapper that modify they map by the advise tell by pro , it is a lot of work (really a lot ) and take a lot of time .
(there is more stuff to tell but i will make it short , i can write a book about that :D )

so chose them is hard (need really motivated player )

2 : community :
since it is a community game , need to have them participate , in a small part about 30 %
how make them participate i don't know exactly now ^^' (vote on map chosen by tester for example or vote for the tester)

3 : map :
we receive something like 80 map , so correcting all the bug on all is impossible without big team .
working on making pdf/video /...rules /advise to seep up this process .(livert work on it too )

novationx wrote:Another website runned by temporarily NADEO fanboys.
Until they give up in 1-2years and the website turns into garbage.

I would like to see this integrated into the game and made with the help of NADEO.
I have some solution , Nanoushkaa too , but i think the plugin will not be out fast , as for the web site we can have one that can help us manage the map http://ezobs.com/ marl say that he can do a version for elite , but not now because working for http://obsmania.com/ .

To conclude : making mappool need a lot of preparation , because a lot of factor interfering ^^ .
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Kryw
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Re: New pack map election system

Post by Kryw » 18 Nov 2014, 01:22

No close maps plz like old sun, magnitude ect... where u can't rush any defenders it's just about only spamming rail/rockets on both side.

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