eXpansion 1.* support drop

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oliverde8
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eXpansion 1.* support drop

Post by oliverde8 » 11 Mar 2017, 23:32

Hi,

This is an unexpected turn of events. Just a few hours ago we were thinking of improvements: we spent our day working on eXpansion fixing bugs & adding to what is in place. We even have the 1.0.2 packages ready....

But it seems that the community wishes for XAseco or whatever other crap there is (I am being nusty), and that whatever we do we can't satisfy.
This has been an ongoing struggle for us for years; we loved working on eXpansion but the community aspect has always been a struggle.
The recent beta has confirmed us that eXpansion is unwanted. I know they are a few of you that uses it, but you are a very small minority.

If you check github you will see that we will continue to commit & push stuff but it's for our own usage only. Feel free to use it but do not expect any support at installation or even bug fixing. If the bug don't bother us we won't fix it.

eXpansion wasn't perfect far from it, a project started by reaby & me a programming student(at the time) that at a time did only PHP for fun. The first commit was in february 2013, the projet started even before that.
I see so much errors in eXpansion but it remains a solid working controller doing so much more then the other controllers.

On a more personal note. I am really sad to end it like this, but when I see the hundreds of hours I spent coding stuff for this game I realize how much stuff I have thrown away.

Some people are working on new controllers, I wish them luck.

See you guys in game as a regular player.

I am not drunk, I haven't drink alchool at all.

EDIT @21/05/2017:

The question is asked still quite a lot, so here is a small edit now that MP4 is released.

eXpansion heavily relied upon maniascript to work properly. Sadly with MP4 some of the functionalities we used either are broken, or crashes the game, or requires to be recoded to make it in a different way :
viewtopic.php?f=559&t=40383
viewtopic.php?f=545&t=39430&p=276414#p276414

eXpansion also used manialib library for generating it's manialinks (widgets & windows). This library is not maintained anymore and with the latest version of the game creates issues with the way the z-index is handled.

Globally the hall UI part of eXpansion needed to be redone, why were we so much affected? Well because we were without a doubt the controller relying the most on Maniascript & because we should have never used manialib in the first place.

eXpansion also has a lot of deprecated code to work with legacy game modes. It was necessary to go through all this code to remove it. Finally eXpansion is relatively old and was made using manialive & had quite a technical dept.

We did work during the Beta to make eXpansion better but making it work with all it's features as good as on MP3 would have been impossible for the 2 of us. Either of us can spend more then a few hours per week. Either we had to remove features or we needed help. The tendency at that point was to build new server controller and not to bother with existing ones; so no one wanted to help us. At that point we decided that as we would not be able anyway to have a complete eXp1 for the release of MP4, we should start working on eXp2.

So even true eXpansion 1 support is dropped, eXpansion is not abandoned. We announced the drop of support as soon as we took the decision so that no one would be surprise when MP4 came out not to have a working eXp, we went further and even publishes a patches version of eXp1 for MP4 to give people time to search for an alternative.

When will eXp2 be ready? well the core will probably be ready this year with some simple plugins. That it will be a matter of building.
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toffe
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Re: eXpansion support drop

Post by toffe » 12 Mar 2017, 00:19

Hey Oliverde,

It's really sad that the best controller, and in my opinion as of writing the only controller for bigger servers and the biggest cups and events like some big stadium cups or events with up to 200+ players. It was the only controller that was running smooth on this, and I was very happy that it was there.
Of course this doesn't mean that eXpansion is dead, it's open source, and could evolve and stuff.

Thanks for all the time you and Reaby have put into it. You guys really made it to an potentionally succesfully controller. There was only one problem you guys had, and that was the freaking server owners that keep hosting on older crappy controllers that were made out of an "programming learning hobby" and was never changed to be more performance proof than just the "hobby performance". You know the controller I mean right. Right. :mrgreen: .

Will you still maintain the Github? Or is it going to be transfered?

Toffe

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Dommy
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Re: eXpansion support drop

Post by Dommy » 12 Mar 2017, 00:33

Well, It's not a good news to hear...

But the reason is not the controller's quality, it's the community members who still use Xaseco over ManiaControl, Expansion and UAseco.
The same community members who keep hosting servers on legacy modes instead scripts.
The same people who would tell at you THIS WAS AND IS PERFECT WE DON'T NEED TO CHANGE IT EVEN IF THERE IS NEW BETTER STUFF OUT FOR OVER 3 YEARS!!!!!1111111111

You did nothing wrong, I experience completely the same with Galaxy and it's game modes. This community is blind and doesn't see better tools and solutions happening around it.
Last edited by Dommy on 12 Mar 2017, 00:34, edited 1 time in total.
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oliverde8
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Re: eXpansion support drop

Post by oliverde8 » 12 Mar 2017, 00:34

Hi,

It's sad, but it's not just about the people not using or updating. We realized quite a while ago that eXp had grown to much. We have asked for help for other developers to do plugins(not personnally to anyone just announced) and no one came. So we built even more hoping to attact people and that finally people would create new plugins so that we could remove stuff from the core.

But beside a few not open source specific plugins and I think one plugin (that's hasn't been updated since....) no one answered.

There are things we wished to put in place. Cleaning needed, but it never quite happened.

I think it's for the best; We have learned a lot but it's time to turn the page.

yes the github will remain, and we will continue to push. It's the support that ends put we continue to use it. There wont be new tags created.
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toffe
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Re: eXpansion support drop

Post by toffe » 12 Mar 2017, 01:12

Well, you guys really rock anyway. Good news about the repo.
It may be sooner or later (cough) that all XAseco users are required to move to any other controller. (or we just ban the usage :D ).

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Re: eXpansion support drop

Post by TheBigG. » 12 Mar 2017, 02:54

Sad to hear but completely reasonable. Expansion is really awesome and currently i think the only controller that work flawless and fast with 237 players :1010 (while the game itself is quite unhappy with that player amount :roflol: )
I really have to thank you and Reaby for your great work and help that i needed at big events. :thx:
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Re: eXpansion support drop

Post by Florenzius » 12 Mar 2017, 09:53

Uh, sad to hear that. I always used eXpansion on my own servers beside UAseco.. You always fixed bugs quickly. Good luck oliverde and reaby :)
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hackie
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Re: eXpansion support drop

Post by hackie » 12 Mar 2017, 10:39

Some one hacked Ollie his account , this can't be true :roflol:

Realy sad to hear , but understandable.

Thank you both !!! for all the tears , sweat , hours you put into youre perfect! controller.

Ollie wrote : "But it seems that the community wishes for XAseco" sinds when did Xymph get xaseco out of the fridge ?

Using Uaseco my self atm , but have the feeling thats dead aswell.

Was fun testing stuff ^^ , Thanks :D
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Re: eXpansion support drop

Post by kripkee » 12 Mar 2017, 11:46

nice, so you are just mad?
I checked the first page of TM²Stadium and 3/10 usings eXpansion and 7/10 Xaseco2 and 2 of the fullest server used expanion. But ok

I give you an example when I reported a bug (to reaby):
"hi, the hud is freezing when I am on spectator mode" and the result is something like this:
"i have nothing else to say
what you expect me to answer ?
should i be sorry ?
if it doesn't work right, open issue ticket @ github"
[...]
"feel free to switch to xaseco2 or uaseco if expansion doesn't meet your needs for stability
uaseco though has it's own problems
with admins, adding maps etc etc".

For this problem I had to ask someone else, and he fixed it.
http://kreipe.patrick.coolserverhosting ... on-fix.zip
So if you want drop your support, feel free. What do you expect?

Xaseco2 might be old, but it runs fine with 200+ players aswell, if you don't kill it with 30 thirdparty plugins which generate 200 Windows. TheBigG can confirm it, I had some servers by him when TM² Stadium was released

If you really like your own tool, then make it super stable and not something like "it could be super stable". It's really contra to use it on full server and then the controller is randomly stopped by an unknow crash. "Classic" like activate/deaktivate some plugins and then b00m.

Small Sidenote. The "normal" serverhoster just want have a running and stable system, and not a beta that might be work or not. I personal supported your tool when I rent server to other players and told them what they have to do to handle eXpansion. But a new random player would never think "where is the menu? Maybe I should do a right click". -> That's basicly 100 times easier in Xaseco when you use fufi menu.

In this case, if you really want that people use the newest beta, then don't sell it as beta otherwise it should be used for privatetest reaseons. If you drop your own support on eXpansion, then it's ok, it's your decision. The last update from Xaseco2 was released May 2013.

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Re: eXpansion support drop

Post by hackie » 12 Mar 2017, 12:25

kripkee wrote:
12 Mar 2017, 11:46
nice, so you are just mad?
I checked the first page of TM²Stadium and 3/10 usings eXpansion and 7/10 Xaseco2 and 2 of the fullest server used expanion. But ok

I give you an example when I reported a bug (to reaby):
"hi, the hud is freezing when I am on spectator mode" and the result is something like this:
"i have nothing else to say
what you expect me to answer ?
should i be sorry ?
if it doesn't work right, open issue ticket @ github"
[...]
"feel free to switch to xaseco2 or uaseco if expansion doesn't meet your needs for stability
uaseco though has it's own problems
with admins, adding maps etc etc".

For this problem I had to ask someone else, and he fixed it.
http://kreipe.patrick.coolserverhosting ... on-fix.zip
So if you want drop your support, feel free. What do you expect?

Xaseco2 might be old, but it runs fine with 200+ players aswell, if you don't kill it with 30 thirdparty plugins which generate 200 Windows. TheBigG can confirm it, I had some servers by him when TM² Stadium was released

If you really like your own tool, then make it super stable and not something like "it could be super stable". It's really contra to use it on full server and then the controller is randomly stopped by an unknow crash. "Classic" like activate/deaktivate some plugins and then b00m.

Small Sidenote. The "normal" serverhoster just want have a running and stable system, and not a beta that might be work or not. I personal supported your tool when I rent server to other players and told them what they have to do to handle eXpansion. But a new random player would never think "where is the menu? Maybe I should do a right click". -> That's basicly 100 times easier in Xaseco when you use fufi menu.

In this case, if you really want that people use the newest beta, then don't sell it as beta otherwise it should be used for privatetest reaseons. If you drop your own support on eXpansion, then it's ok, it's your decision. The last update from Xaseco2 was released May 2013.

Could a admin please erase this post ? Negativity is not allowed by Hyllis. :roflol:

Kripke, its a stupid post. No way to thank those guy's for all the time they put into it. !!!
I always had a good chat with Reaby , friendly and understandable. And a bug was fixed realy fast.
And about that fufimenu , pfff this is 2017 , wake up dude :roflol:

btw your videos suck ! :roflol:
Last edited by hackie on 12 Mar 2017, 12:47, edited 1 time in total.
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