[ALL?] Missing camera mode (mp/tmn num1)

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paul13
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Re: [ALL?] Missing camera mode (mp/tmn num1)

Post by paul13 » 05 Apr 2016, 23:23

@TMarc, xrayjay:

Now, I know all that, and I can see how you can apply this to other common requests like object import, mediatracker, etc.

But in exactly which way does having a third camera option run against this "philosophy" of TM Turbo?

And keep in mind, this is not asking the world. We are talking about a feature that would take basically zero effort on Nadeo's part to implement.

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TMarc
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Re: [ALL?] Missing camera mode (mp/tmn num1)

Post by TMarc » 05 Apr 2016, 23:42

paul13 wrote:But in exactly which way does having a third camera option run against this "philosophy" of TM Turbo?
I guess this is not the entirely right question.
For Trackmania as it exists on the PC, and not looking at Turbo for a moment, all cameras are there.
There was a change in some camera perspective when switching from United to Maniaplanet, already this confused a bit, but it was not that much dramatic.

Now, for Turbo, the design decisions were not made based on what is possible and available for the PC,
but based on experiences and observations from Ubisoft with their console games, and the early feedback from (console) players who didn't know Trackmania at first.
That some decisions are not right, or even bad... we know now sufficently.
But we can't change anything at it, even we we keep asking for it.
paul13 wrote:And keep in mind, this is not asking the world. We are talking about a feature that would take basically zero effort on Nadeo's part to implement.
That's what you think. Sure, it's certainly not the world. But I tried to explain before that it is perhaps not that easy.
And if Nadeo says they don't change it, then it is their right to do so, and also probably their fixed opinion, at least for some time.

Honestly, I would also not see big harm to add the additional camera to the PC version, and then we would have much less endless discussion.
Perhaps it is even still there, if only the control assignment was removed, but I don't know.
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paul13
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Re: [ALL?] Missing camera mode (mp/tmn num1)

Post by paul13 » 06 Apr 2016, 01:43

TMarc wrote:
paul13 wrote:But in exactly which way does having a third camera option run against this "philosophy" of TM Turbo?
I guess this is not the entirely right question. [...]
Of course it isn't, but it certainly is the question that is implied if requests to add that option are met with statements like
xrayjay wrote:I presume that most of the people did not understand correctly that Trackmania Turbo is an independent game and has nothing to do with maniaplanet and it´s features :o (beside the technically base of both games)
I will grant that the question was phrased in a slightly provocative way, but again, I just don't think that talking about the "Trackmania Turbo target" is a satisfactory explanation for the omission of cam1.
TMarc wrote:
paul13 wrote:And keep in mind, this is not asking the world. We are talking about a feature that would take basically zero effort on Nadeo's part to implement.
That's what you think. Sure, it's certainly not the world. But I tried to explain before that it is perhaps not that easy.
Well, given that TMT is based on MP and the view is still present in the game, that would be the natural thing to assume.
And if Nadeo says they don't change it, then it is their right to do so, and also probably their fixed opinion, at least for some time.

Honestly, I would also not see big harm to add the additional camera to the PC version, and then we would have much less endless discussion.
Perhaps it is even still there, if only the control assignment was removed, but I don't know.
Sure, ultimately the decision is on Nadeo, but we can still try to persuade them to put it back in or at least come up with a more convincing argument.

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BLiNNeMaNS
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Re: [ALL?] Missing camera mode (mp/tmn num1)

Post by BLiNNeMaNS » 06 Apr 2016, 01:53

TMarc wrote:That some decisions are not right, or even bad... we know now sufficently.
But we can't change anything at it, even we keep asking for it.
actually.. in theory it should be possible to alter the camera mode with an external program.
I'm no coder, but the fact the camera modes are already in the game and have an ID should be sufficient to be able to inject a switch into the game session and load the other cam instead. You'd still have only 2 cams ingame (internal and external) but at least the game would be playable.

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kripkee
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Re: [ALL?] Missing camera mode (mp/tmn num1)

Post by kripkee » 06 Apr 2016, 07:20

I give up, I can't understand why some people think that "cam1" is a "feature". This cam was always here since the beginning of TMO (and power/speed up?) and now we have a release for consoles and because of this it's ok to "disable" this? What the hell. :roll:

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Re: [ALL?] Missing camera mode (mp/tmn num1)

Post by Darkhawk » 06 Apr 2016, 10:06

kripkee wrote:I give up, I can't understand why some people think that "cam1" is a "feature". This cam was always here since the beginning of TMO (and power/speed up?) and now we have a release for consoles and because of this it's ok to "disable" this? What the hell. :roll:
100% with you on this!

Why exactly should we just agree that a camera that was always in TM just got removed or is atleast not available outside of the MT? We are not asking for new features here. I think most of the people that complain about missing cam 1 know the intention of TMT so please don't come up with this "TMT is no TM3" and stuff because WE KNOW!

So why should we shut our mouth instead of asking for something that's already in the game to be available outside of MT aswell? why just give up because " Nadeo won't be doing anything"? So we should just accept it and move on?

Really? :?

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i7mean
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Re: [ALL?] Missing camera mode (mp/tmn num1)

Post by i7mean » 06 Apr 2016, 13:06

"Turbo has the ManiaPlanet basis" "Turbo is an independant game without comparison with others TM". Ahemm, what? But ok, let's end here for that.

The fact is that as Kripke said, camera1 has nothing to do with your comparison with other features. Since cam1 is cam1. It's like changing the gameplay.. yes literraly changing the gameplay.

But again and again, since Nadeo didn't release a PC-bêta for us Trackmania fans, I think we've been cheated sometimes, that's a bad feeling I know :oops:
We only had sneak peaks of the game, showing some new things ect... Again, I personnally have no problem with custom carskins missing, I couldn't make a good skin by myself. I have no problem with mods missing too (all them locators problems). But I will support all the one that used to be creative with those things, because I'm not selfish.

I have the feeling that the "no-cam1-user" are a bit selfish, I wish I'm wrong. :?
Back to the subject, we had all sneak peaks about Double-driver blablabla, I remember a Sneak Peak about the online, and I asked why there wasn't any records system "dedimania-like" in the server, even if they are not dedicated server. A Nadeo team member told me "there will be one, but not the way you think of them, we will say more in a next sneak peak". I've been naive, because this "next" sneak peak never arrived. All this to say : we weren't aware of what was going on. We knew some features would disappear, but I was pretty much okay. So I preordered the game even though everything wasn't clear in my mind, but I had confidence about Nadeo.
All this text to say that I honestly didn't paid the game for this. I will tell you my point of view, if I knew cam1 would be suddenly RIPed, and leaderboards nowhere to be seen, I wouldn't have buy the game. I'm literraly not lying right now, I'm telling my real feelings :( . I guess I made a mistake preordering the game (that was the first game I preordered in my whole life, nice lesson).

Anyway, cam1 can't be hard to implement to the game since it already exists in the mediatracker (lol?).
And please, be solidary to your TM Community friends, who really struggle to play without some of the features (not only cam1). We can make this game better, let's do this.
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Re: [ALL?] Missing camera mode (mp/tmn num1)

Post by disposableaccount » 06 Apr 2016, 15:35

xrayjay wrote:And don´t implement uplay to maniaplanet! thank you :thx:
i don't doubt they tried, if you have seen the steam version then you know it's probably not a easy task for nadeo

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TMarc
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Re: [ALL?] Missing camera mode (mp/tmn num1)

Post by TMarc » 06 Apr 2016, 16:49

i7mean, why do you again attack those who don't desperately need camera 1? This is exactly the selfishness which you are actually blaming, don't you think? :roll:

You can be sure, if there was only camera 1 and bumper cam in the regular Trackmania, and they changed it in Maniaplanet just to see our reactions and to annoy us, the complains would be much more. So they better don't do that. ;)

And that I'm not complaining like you and the others about the "missing" or "not implemented" or "removed" camera 1 does not mean that I don't understand you. I actually do. And it is also not that I don't care, otherwise I would not have written a lot here. Perhaps I simply can arrange apparently better with the Turbo cameras, despite my age :lol:

We all can still ask for the additional camera, even if we know that they are telling they won't develop anything further for Turbo.
But assume they would add the camera. What next? Which feature would be "missing" then in the game?
Would others now ask to implement that? Would this ever stop then?

From Nadeos point of view, it stopped already at the release, because they want to focus again on their own project, which is Maniaplanet.

What would you as "hard core" Trackmaniac prefer? That they continue developing Turbo against their initial principles, by adding feature for feature the one and the other is requesting, and losing much more time regarding Maniaplanet (Shootmania, Trackmania²/³ and Questmania).
Or that they now really put all their energy and their effort towards Maniaplanet, the power up for Shootmania, Lagoon for Trackmania², etc.?
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wortex
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Re: [ALL?] Missing camera mode (mp/tmn num1)

Post by wortex » 06 Apr 2016, 17:01

TMarc wrote: and losing much more time regarding Maniaplanet (Shootmania, Trackmania²/³ and Questmania).
Oh man, you've just revealed Trackmania³ is coming xDD

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