Last preview for Maniaplanet 4

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tombuilder
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Re: Last preview for Maniaplanet 4

Post by tombuilder » 03 Feb 2017, 22:07

saywhat wrote:But thise will require a lot of channels no? Considering all the different types, f.ex in Stadium you have Tech, fullspeed, lol, rpg and dirt. A dirt player i guess is not interest in driving lol or fullspeed, and if no channel or server is available he will simply not drive and exit game?

Nah, i dont like thise "forcing", i would like to choose... I'd rather drive with 2-4 people in a type i like or than with 20+ people in an type i dont like...
Yes, you are right. But this is the perspective of a player, who already knows what he likes. For me it took almost a year until I found out, that Dirt is the only thing I really like playing. Others don`t , they like other game modes or even environments, or more than one. This was an evolution over years maybe. This diversity by itself is great, it`s like having many different games in one. And even in Dirt itself I have many different game modes I can play. That diversity is so big, it is too big for a new player.

The situation atm is maybe like that:
If you never played that game before, maybe you start with stadium. You go into the game and see some servers, OK, let`s try the most populated ones. Most probably this is fun/lol or fullspeed. Reaction: Nah, I don`t like that. It`s so hard, I can`t even finish a map. What is going on here, what do I have to do?

The evolution of a player is somehow lost at the current point. When I started, I tried the solo maps, had fun and tried the same maps in multiplayer, because I knew them. I could start with something I know. But there are no starter servers anymore, or they are not populated enough, that new players would find them and have some people to play with.

These channels maybe a good solution to the "diversity problem". New players will probably see a schedule with different games/modes/... and can research beforehand, what it is (There are so many nice videos out there!!!) and can prepare mentally, that this might be a "strange" new experience. But they know, that this is not the standard game, but a different version of it, maybe even created by the community. Atm I`m not sure they understand, that some servers are "different" than others.

Back to the "forcing" problem:
As far as I understand it, this procedure is mainly aimed on completely new players. And they need to be "forced/guided" on this platform. As a dirt player, this is completely uninteresting for me. I will drive on my prefered servers and have fun with my friends. Maybe I will look on the schedule, if there is a nice dirt event, but mainly this is not meant for me, but for beginners.

Well, this is at least how I understood this ;) Maybe I`m wrong.
But the biggest of all questions remains: How do Nadeo/Ubi plan to get new players?

And finally from the marketing view: The new "free" player tried out some channels/episodes, "maybe" understands the game and it`s diversity and buys the fu##ing cheap game and can do whatever he likes.

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i7mean
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Re: Last preview for Maniaplanet 4

Post by i7mean » 04 Feb 2017, 07:30

TomBuilder a big part of your post remind me that a couple of community members suggested a kind of tutorial driving for the beginners by Nadeo in-game. I still think this is a great suggestion because many people I assume just dl the game, go multi, server ULTRA LOL SEXY MINI (where there are the most players) and then are completely lost and give up...
Bring on "official" tutorial maps, with instructions and replays showing you how to. Either this or, block the multiplayer to beginners who haven't finished some solo maps.

"You finished the White Series, you can now play online multiplayer" [VIDEO SHOWS] "To join a server[...]. These are the different game modes, we start with TA [...]. This is rounds mode [...]" [VIDEO STOPS] "Have fun playing with people all over the world"

*enters garage* "Here is your garage you can do [...]" "To share your creations with the players all over the world you just need to [...]"

Is this that complicated? Or am I talking shet ?
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killer606
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Re: Last preview for Maniaplanet 4

Post by killer606 » 04 Feb 2017, 11:19

Hylis you are talking about big Cups like Zerator. Will it be possible to do really big cups with more then 255 players on one server? Just imagine a Cup with 500 players on one server. This would be awesome!

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tombuilder
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Re: Last preview for Maniaplanet 4

Post by tombuilder » 04 Feb 2017, 14:17

i7mean wrote:TomBuilder a big part of your post remind me that a couple of community members suggested a kind of tutorial driving for the beginners by Nadeo in-game. I still think this is a great suggestion because many people I assume just dl the game, go multi, server ULTRA LOL SEXY MINI (where there are the most players) and then are completely lost and give up...
Bring on "official" tutorial maps, with instructions and replays showing you how to. Either this or, block the multiplayer to beginners who haven't finished some solo maps.

"You finished the White Series, you can now play online multiplayer" [VIDEO SHOWS] "To join a server[...]. These are the different game modes, we start with TA [...]. This is rounds mode [...]" [VIDEO STOPS] "Have fun playing with people all over the world"

*enters garage* "Here is your garage you can do [...]" "To share your creations with the players all over the world you just need to [...]"

Is this that complicated? Or am I talking shet ?
Well, this is how it should have been from the start. But now this game is just too old to attract new players just with this approach.
So with the channels idea and Maniaplanet 4 to come, they have also some "new things" for advertising and gain some attention again.

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Hylis
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Re: Last preview for Maniaplanet 4

Post by Hylis » 04 Feb 2017, 15:51

Tombuilder, it's also good for players of one special mode since they will have a meeting time to enjoy being together with the other players that like the same mode without having to be H24 online. It's like club in a city where people get really friendly by meeting one or two hours per week doing the same activity. It will also be good since it will welcome more easily new players. If they are new, they may not arrive in the Dirt community easily if only servers with though tracks are populated or if they are with too good players. This is why you will have 4 different levels per channel: welcome, bronze, silver and gold. The welcome can have simple maps, tutorial information, match settings etc. that better suit the new players. Otherwise, they would have to learn alone, which can still be ok in a racing mode but can become more complicated in a team mode, like Chase or Shootmania team mode for example. And this is a path to then have more top level player of your preferred mode one day, which is as important as keeping the top level more and more interesting.

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i7mean
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Re: Last preview for Maniaplanet 4

Post by i7mean » 04 Feb 2017, 16:12

Cool, you didn't really gave the information about the different levels on the channel (or I missed it). Will the LP still be the system that determine your level ? It's not very accurate. A real ranking system for players is needed. It is like that in every big games, whatever genre it is, why not TM ? It will really boost the interest of the game, like really.
i7mean wrote:
i7mean wrote:Wait but you said that paid account have the server browser ? Will we be able to choose whatever server we want whenever we want even if there's nobody in it ?
Can I have an answer please ? ^^
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ChallengeSY
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Re: Last preview for Maniaplanet 4

Post by ChallengeSY » 04 Feb 2017, 17:39

These previews were nice. Good luck to the closed beta testers! :pop:

ManiaMaster
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Re: Last preview for Maniaplanet 4

Post by ManiaMaster » 05 Feb 2017, 11:26

Hylis wrote: This is why being in top placement on phone or Steam became prevalent and that it represents channels in their own way, and that they have also to answer to the same question than us, a "problem" that is just the consequence of the power of enabling people to create & share. So, yes, it's an answer to a problem we have created, but a problem we have created for a very good reason & for good consequence.
I'm sorry for sounding negative, but this is simply not correct.
The "problem" you have created lies in the flawed title pack system. Just look at TMUF. TMUF had way more diversity than maniaplanet ever had. And this with "only" one title. There was Race (with all its submodes), stunt, freestyle, drift, rpg, trials, platform just to name a few.

You just have to accept that your utopic idea of title packs were doomed to fail.
You only have to open maniaplanet, open for example the canyon title pack and look at the server browser to see that the system was not "for good consequence".

It might have worked, if the palyerbase were way larger. But clearly the playerbase was turned off by something.

For me, and I think for many others, the game simply lost its creative charm with the idea that anything could now be created without limitations.
Creativity has its source in these very limitations TMUF had. You had a limited number of blocks that you had to creatively combine to create amazing tracks. Just look at the freestyle cup community: It created freaking skateparks in a racing game. This could never have happened in the maniaplanet system, even with all freedom in the world.

This next step, for me is then the final nail in the coffin. Make the system even more complicated and over convuluted. I already cannot get my friends to play trackmania with me, at lan parties. With thousands of titles to download individually, all obeying different rulesets.

I miss the time where you could just log into TMFU, fired up the server browser and BOOM: Thousands of communities that flourished within that system. The freestyle servers were full constantly, you could play whatever you wanted whenever you wanted with thousands of people.

But sure, better force me to play with even less people in the modes I enjoy while 99% of the community is on the "channel", playing official nadeo maps.
With the title system and now finally the channel system you effectively exclude 99% of the community from the creative process. If I don't invest 100% of my time to create maps, learn 3d modelling, get my maps on the official channel, literally NOONE will play it.

I'm sorry if this feels more like a rant than constructive criticism. I tried to make my point clear while explaining the flaws as I see them. I really wished this game would flourish.
But I'm a 100% certain that this will shrink the community even more.

oliverde8
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Re: Last preview for Maniaplanet 4

Post by oliverde8 » 05 Feb 2017, 13:08

I quite agree that the title system doesn't work. Here is usually happens when I try and play maniaplanet.

I open the game and open the TM² Title. That's my favorite one, I like to be able to play on multiple environments. Usually I find no one, the servers are deserted.
So I switch to the valley title pack hoping to find someone there. Usually there is even less people there. I then try the canyon title pack. There is people there generally, either I stay there or the server in question is lool, and I don't like it so I switch again.
I have just spent 10 minutes in game searching for a game without success and so go to stadium where there is always people. Find myself a server and play there.

The issue is I don't like much stadium, I like diversity, so after less then an hour I get bored and leave the game.

The issue is there isn't a big enough player base to fill up the game, and there is no way to find a server to have fun on quickly.

Now on the matter of channels I am not sure I understand it but the way I have it it's quite an old system. TV channels today is something of the past. I hate opening the tv and zap to find something to watch. This is what is happening at the moment. I want to be able to watch what I want when I want. That is why netflix and services alike are working so well.
Not just because they have diversity but
  • Because they can propose content you might like based on content you watch. (Machine learning)
  • Because I can watch it when I want.
  • Because finding stuff is easy
  • Because most of the stuff is in one place (not entirely true but would have been great)


What I really expect from MP is a way to make it easier to find content that I will like.

Either way can't wait for MP4 and see what all this is really going to be like.
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w1lla
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Re: Last preview for Maniaplanet 4

Post by w1lla » 05 Feb 2017, 14:51

i agree with oliverde8 with this one. but see it as a kodi addon like exodus. you the player can choose what you play. its a situation we the community should seek for a solution and not a problem.
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