Review after 11 years Trackmania

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McBain
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Re: Review after 11 years Trackmania

Post by McBain » 26 Jan 2018, 22:26

Miss wrote:
20 Jan 2018, 18:45
There's a lot of stuff to unpack there in your post, not necessarily connected to the discussion we were having, but let's look at a few points:
Sorry Miss for late reply. I really appreciate your engagement for Maniaplanet. In my opinion I had to provoke a bit because i was disappointed about the way the discussions went often.
Miss wrote:
20 Jan 2018, 18:45
First of all, you mention I don't have "much experience" in the past of TM? I'm not sure that's entirely true, since I've been playing since TMNF and Canyon beta (but then took a break until 2014) and even played in a bunch of ESL competitions myself. But besides that, I don't really understand why that's relevant to the discussion :P
Ok i understood it differently. Then we just have different opinions at some points. Welcome to the club of long time trackmaniacs ;)
Miss wrote:
20 Jan 2018, 18:45
Second, I understand the problem with TMAll not being available if you don't own all titlepacks, but I'm not sure there are any good solutions for this. I keep saying "what would you change" but nobody seems to have an idea in this area. (Which is fine, since Nadeo has to be the one making the decisions, and who knows, maybe they already have a solution in the back of their heads, but having a discussion about this in the community can still be encouraged.)

Also, didn't Nadeo make their TM2 titlepack available in MP4 (with all environments)? I thought MrSloppi/Kripke titlepack is just a big collection of maps from the community?
There are a lot of ideas around but Nadeo is ignoring them and the community can provide only partial solutions. Im not sure this is the killer issue but at least for me it's very sad. Also the problem is not only related to Multi-Environment but also to some extend to Multi-Titlepack making it impossible to play maps with items from several TP on the same server.
Miss wrote:
20 Jan 2018, 18:45
"90% of features from Xaseco" sounds like a lot. Which features are you missing exactly? Have you tried PyPlanet? Uaseco isn't very good, in my opinion, but as far as I know, it's a fork of Xaseco, so everything should be there.
Well about this topic: 90% was a bit too much :p But apart from the standard features of a controller i can tell you what i miss:
- /mxlist, /mxinfo, /chatlog, /topsums, /active, /ranks, /players, and so on...
- especially some RPG TM1 Plugins (never saw them i Xaseco2 also...) --> /ztrack, /cp (CP-Live is often a good replacement)

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Miss
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Re: Review after 11 years Trackmania

Post by Miss » 26 Jan 2018, 22:38

Wow, /players doesn't work, you're right, I just tried it. That's quite surprising actually! :O
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wraith
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Re: Review after 11 years Trackmania

Post by wraith » 25 Mar 2018, 13:54

Ok going to add my say its little bit off the topic but also feel i need to say it.
Sorry if i offend Nadeo or Ubisoft because i love these guys so much for giving so many years of fun and meeting great people that no other game as done that in my history of gaming...

Maniaplanet 4 "trackamnia" as we used to know it is DEAD !

Demo free users
Player Channel as killed the game..Do not get me wrong its a good way to pull new gamers into TM, but needs to be changed ideas below,
limits need to be put in place, to 1 or 2 hrs per day/week at the end of the day they can play forever free.
When they game time ends a big sign comes up saying BUY TM to keep playing.. blocking 3/4 of the middle of the screen.

Loyal true fans from the years past must feel like me multiplayer as gone ? due to the free player channel.

Ideas for the player channels if we to go down the line and away from multiplayer
Split the Player channels up into 4 World Environments, so each one Valley/Stadium/Lagoon and Canyon as its own Player Channel.
example instead of forcing valley players to join Canyon vice versa when we have different likes..
Player channel needs to change

Trackmania feels so empty to me
This is why i feel like pulling away from my Player channel, i like valley/canyon but hate Lagoon because the car "to me feels like
a shopping trolley" but i am forced to play it, then once over loved stadium but feel once mp4 update came out i did not like it am more.
sadly i leave the game and never return to it till next day and sometimes i miss for days on end, once over i was on it that felt like 24/7
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adamkooo2
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Re: Review after 11 years Trackmania

Post by adamkooo2 » 25 Mar 2018, 15:27

wraith wrote:
25 Mar 2018, 13:54
Ideas for the player channels if we to go down the line and away from multiplayer
Split the Player channels up into 4 World Environments, so each one Valley/Stadium/Lagoon and Canyon as its own Player Channel.
example instead of forcing valley players to join Canyon vice versa when we have different likes..
Player channel needs to change
I completelly agree with that - split TM into 4 Nadeo servers for each environment + one user-powered channel. That might be a good solution for Nadeo, I think.
wraith wrote:
25 Mar 2018, 13:54
once over loved stadium but feel once mp4 update came out i did not like it am more
if you don't like the new textures of stadium, you can use my mod with old textures:
http://www.maniapark.com/ressource.php?id=3104
/\rkady
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wraith
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Re: Review after 11 years Trackmania

Post by wraith » 25 Mar 2018, 16:20

No its not the textures maybe i should have said the the control of the car in stadium i do not like now, not sure what was changed i just can not go around the corners no more..
love using peoples mods :D
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null8fuenf10
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Re: Review after 11 years Trackmania

Post by null8fuenf10 » 28 Mar 2018, 14:29

Hi Wraith and hi @ll others,

wraith wrote:
25 Mar 2018, 13:54
Maniaplanet 4 "trackamnia" as we used to know it is DEAD !
Sadly to say that, but it is true.
Your Channel brings the old TM Feeling back, for a short period of time. :thumbsup: and :thx: , for this!

wraith wrote:
25 Mar 2018, 13:54
Demo free users
Player Channel as killed the game..Do not get me wrong its a good way to pull new gamers into TM, but needs to be changed ideas below,
limits need to be put in place, to 1 or 2 hrs per day/week at the end of the day they can play forever free.
When they game time ends a big sign comes up saying BUY TM to keep playing.. blocking 3/4 of the middle of the screen.

Loyal true fans from the years past must feel like me multiplayer as gone ? due to the free player channel.
My thoughts, in the last days, goes in the same direction! Channels are a great way, to advertise Titlepacks and Modes created by Players.
But why, please tell me, why can a DemoPlayer, play 24/7, for free in the Channels? And why on Earth, can they receive a Rank??? A DemoUser, should not be able to get a Global Rank!

Thats not fair and its not very helpfull, to bring more paying Users to MP! Why should someone buy a "Dead" Game, when he/she can play easy MultiEnviroment for free. They don't know what they miss, when they would buy the Full Game! But also, this is not so much at the Moment!

I would limit a DemoPlayer, to one or two Episodes per Day, plus 30min. full Access, to each Envi's Servers and Solomodes (but don't save Records and Medals they earn, only in Full Version) and maybe restricted Access to the Editors, with a very strong Blocklimit.

And like Wraith said, with this Big Sign at End of Demo Time, where people are invited to buy the Game, also more Advertising InDemoGame, in Form of Signs and FlashText, to draw the attention of the people.

wraith wrote:
25 Mar 2018, 13:54
Ideas for the player channels if we to go down the line and away from multiplayer
Split the Player channels up into 4 World Environments, so each one Valley/Stadium/Lagoon and Canyon as its own Player Channel.
example instead of forcing valley players to join Canyon vice versa when we have different likes..
Player channel needs to change
That idea is good, but with the actual Playerbase, not very profitable. In the Future, when it will be successfull, to bring again many Players back to TM, it is absolutly necessary to bring a channel for each Envi. But not for now. For now, when a Valley Player, not wants to play Canyon, he/she can go to the Valley Servers. And for now, i would prefer, to see more Options for Channel Owners and Users.

1. The possibility to vote for a renewal and to get again 30min. (no Demo Users)
(At the End, players can vote to stay on the Channel and not change to the next Programm. Then the Channel will be seperated and the Players who votes for staying on the Channel, will not be transfered and can play again 30min.! This should/could be possible one or two times)

2. There should be a Rankinglist for each ChannelProgramm and in each Envi. It should be viewable InGame and should show ALL the Players and their Ranks
(again Demo Users, should not be able to receive a Rank, but them should be shown on which Rank they where, when they would have bought the Game)

3. Dedimania in Channels

wraith wrote:
25 Mar 2018, 13:54
Trackmania feels so empty to me
This is why i feel like pulling away from my Player channel, i like valley/canyon but hate Lagoon because the car "to me feels like
a shopping trolley" but i am forced to play it, then once over loved stadium but feel once mp4 update came out i did not like it am more.
sadly i leave the game and never return to it till next day and sometimes i miss for days on end, once over i was on it that felt like 24/7
Again, sadly to say, but this true for me, too! I'm mostly online, to play some of the Channel Programs, like yours (Valley Motorsports), Rioulus xd Channel, Valley Chase, CSY Lagoon Rounds, Nimble and now WTC. I liked to play Mr.Sloppis MultiEnvi Channel, too. But there where no Map changes, since beginning, so it's boring now. But that i'm forced to certain times, where i can play my favorite Titles, with an amount of Players to have Fun with, feels very bad to me! And when i go into the Titles, there are no players to play with, only on the Channels.

NADEO, please. Do something..., ... something BIG! :idea: 8-)

Greetings
null8fuenf10 :pil

gimpymoo
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Re: Review after 11 years Trackmania

Post by gimpymoo » 14 Sep 2018, 11:43

Why is Trackmania dying?

I am a "casual" player by most standards but casual players is what the game needs right now, desperately.

One problem is, Trackmania has become one complex giant meme.

The "draw" to Trackmania in the 2000's (specifically Nations) was its simplicity and the fact it was FREE. They are the reasons why player numbers were so high. Nadeo just sucked at converting "free" players to "paying" players (Not Nadeos fault specifically) as frustratingly, TMUF was amazing but all anyone cared about outside of the "hardcore" player base was Stadium.

"Free to play" model was not too common back then but would would have been a winner IMO. Then again, charging for decals would not have gone down too well with the hardcore playerbase but we are talking "casuals" and they would have lapped it up and given some revenue to Nadeo which is better than nothing.

I am talking "players" here, not modders/designers etc, just players. Nowadays, it feels like 90% of players are creators/server owners.

I feel sorry for anyone new coming into TM as the skill gap between players is HUGE and without "fresh blood", it is just getting worse.

Also, the community is rather elitist/toxic in certain areas which does not help.

The "main menu" UI is a mess and puts casuals off, seriously the main screen UI is not casual friendly, it hardly says "Come on in".

Also, releasing the game in "bits and bobs" was a disaster.

All what was needed was a "Free to play" base title with chargeable "add ons". Not seperate games for each environment, that is what killed TM2 from the start, nevermind the fact it fragmented player numbers between environments, how was that EVER a good design choice?

Also, the BIG one in terms of casuals, STEAM.

WHAT IN THE WORLD HAPPENED TO THE STEAM RELEASES. They were A JOKE.

If I launched a TM2 title and wanted to play a different environment, I had to QUIT the game and open another game. Come on...

A ready made workshop/mod system which would have been PERFECT for what the majority of casual players need and are familiar with but was not there from the start and when it was there, it was just so poorly implemented, could have been so much more deeper integrated and started a booming mod community outside of what already exists.

No Steam leaderboard support. Again, I want to compare solo times on a map with friends... is it simple, NO. Should I be able to just do a lap then send a Steam notification to a friend/Steam group.. yes.

I know large numbers of the "hardcore" community are against Steam but the fact is, without it and without supporting the features it offers, a PC game will struggle in most circumstances to gain any support. Regarding TM2, there are many other issues as well which have not helped.

I know this post is a little all over the shop and I apologise but half of it is frustration. Some bad decisions were made right at the start and from then on, TM2 was doomed regards mainstream success.

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Miss
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Re: Review after 11 years Trackmania

Post by Miss » 14 Sep 2018, 13:08

I'm all for Steam. However, if you want to also maintain a playerbase outside of Steam, you can't rely on workshop/leaderboards alone. You can't even double/merge them - non-Steam players can't submit to Steam Leaderboards etc. It'd just make it really confusing.

Can Maniaplanet take steps to make the Steamworks implementation more user friendly? Yes, definitely. But in terms of integrating it with the Steam Community (the website), now that becomes a little more difficult to do well.
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Demented
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Re: Review after 11 years Trackmania

Post by Demented » 14 Sep 2018, 15:50

Interesting thoughts.
As many here know I am not a fan of steam, but that doesn't mean I don't want other people to use it. By the same token if I was ever limited to choose Steam or Uplay and not able to play TM without one of those, I would be done with TM. (and it's by far my favorite game).
Now, I'm not really an online player either but again, that doesn't mean I don't want the online experience to be the best it can be for people. I do.
Two things I feel should really be considered...
1) - It would be really nice if there was a way to have all records and community data interchangeable throughout MP, Steam & Uplay. It would certainly benefit everyone in the long run. I don't really know enough about the dynamics of these platforms to suggest ideas though. ;)
2) - While I personally don't think any TM environments really need to be free (aside from demos) I do think it might be time to merge the four current TM² environments into one big "Trackmania World" game and have any new environments as addons. I find $10 for Stadium and $20 for other environment quite reasonable but a majority of regular player have already purchased them all and $25 or $30 for a Fully Merged game would bring in more people and simplify things a lot. I also think, allowing additional environments to be free addons would keep people interested that aren't already hardcore TM fans.

The separations within MP are too numerous at the moment. Fragmentation = Confusion, Confusion = Players Leaving. It might be time for a merge.
I Love Trackmania, and want to see it not just survive, but to THRIVE! :pil
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wraith
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Re: Review after 11 years Trackmania

Post by wraith » 14 Sep 2018, 17:04

Think back in the time the addons was the new Environments which came out, but like many hardcore tm fans we know now it has not worked as good as we would have liked infact its failed.

I feel the same no group like steam/uplay etc should be singled out and all should be the same.

Demo mode screen should be different from the full paid screen "main menu" maybe on demo screen should be showing off stuff what they are missing out on from the full game like a tease for them to buy it, could have links to sites where to buy from.

Lenght of Demo i think yes it should be limited, maybe 1 hour a day from the time they join.

Can TM return back to what we loved, not sure to be honest but i would love to say YES, one thing for sure i am still here and will be till the end.
Been here nearly the start, made a great big family new / old more each month, and all them years of gaming only tm does this.
yes returning back to TM2 be nice.
One thing for sure keep posting the comments will keep this alive.

Trackmania is like lego a Dreamers Paradise.
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