Review after 11 years Trackmania

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Alinoa
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Re: Review after 11 years Trackmania

Post by Alinoa » 18 Jan 2018, 10:32

The target of TMT was the following one: viewtopic.php?f=524&t=37718
Trackmania 2 gathers four environments: Canyon, Lagoon, Stadium and Valley.
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Miss
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Re: Review after 11 years Trackmania

Post by Miss » 18 Jan 2018, 11:07

kripkee wrote:
18 Jan 2018, 07:15
It's cool that we have people which create things for maniaplanet, but it's basicly pointless, if there is no audience for your creation^^
What do you mean? Don't you think channels are a great way for this? I am 100% sure not as many people would've played my TM2 Nimble titlepack if it wasn't for the channels. :thumbsup:
kripkee wrote:
18 Jan 2018, 07:15
[2] That might be right, but the case is, a new player is learning nothing about Maniaplanet and the game itself^^
Why do you think so?
kripkee wrote:
18 Jan 2018, 07:15
I am pretty sure I red somewhen something like (from nadeo side) ~"If people like TMTurbo, they might move to Maniaplanet to give them the "full power" of Trackmania" ^^

Whatever, things are done now and "we" will wait and watch what happens in the future :)
Sure, but that doesn't mean it was the primary goal. (Alinoa's link to Hylis' post goes into much more detail than I could possibly write here of course.)
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Re: Review after 11 years Trackmania

Post by kripkee » 18 Jan 2018, 11:41

Miss wrote:
18 Jan 2018, 11:07
kripkee wrote:
18 Jan 2018, 07:15
It's cool that we have people which create things for maniaplanet, but it's basicly pointless, if there is no audience for your creation^^
What do you mean? Don't you think channels are a great way for this? I am 100% sure not as many people would've played my TM2 Nimble titlepack if it wasn't for the channels. :thumbsup:
It depends on the titlepack. If your titlepack has some modification in the gamemode section, players can benefit of it. If you use my titlepack (MrSloppi) for example, new players won't see the titlepack itself (when I Update it somewhen with the planned features like solomode, Editor-extentions,...^^)
- Yes, players can play my maps on my MrSloppi Titlepack, but they still learn nothing about the System from Mainaplanet/Trackmania, they just see the server/channel^^
Miss wrote:
18 Jan 2018, 11:07
kripkee wrote:
18 Jan 2018, 07:15
[2] That might be right, but the case is, a new player is learning nothing about Maniaplanet and the game itself^^
Why do you think so?
Did you ever created a free account?^^ They just have the channel, they never touch the maniaplanet system^^
If I would be a brand new player of this game, I would believe this game has nothing more^^
Miss wrote:
18 Jan 2018, 11:07
kripkee wrote:
18 Jan 2018, 07:15
I am pretty sure I red somewhen something like (from nadeo side) ~"If people like TMTurbo, they might move to Maniaplanet to give them the "full power" of Trackmania" ^^

Whatever, things are done now and "we" will wait and watch what happens in the future :)
Sure, but that doesn't mean it was the primary goal. (Alinoa's link to Hylis' post goes into much more detail than I could possibly write here of course.)
Yep, Alinoa already posted it^^

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Re: Review after 11 years Trackmania

Post by Miss » 18 Jan 2018, 11:53

With "Maniaplanet system", do you basically just mean dedicated servers & solo play? If so, what would you suggest they add so that demo players can find this? (Aside from scrapping channels, of course..)
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Re: Review after 11 years Trackmania

Post by kripkee » 18 Jan 2018, 12:59

Miss wrote:
18 Jan 2018, 11:53
With "Maniaplanet system", do you basically just mean dedicated servers & solo play? If so, what would you suggest they add so that demo players can find this? (Aside from scrapping channels, of course..)
Nope, I mean everything: Profiles, Playerpage, Stations, buddylist system, planets, manialink, Editor, Solomode, Online-mode, local-mode, Media-tracker,... etc. They will never come in touch with it, they only have the current channel for SM/TM (or am I wrong?^^)

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Re: Review after 11 years Trackmania

Post by Miss » 18 Jan 2018, 13:09

kripkee wrote:
18 Jan 2018, 12:59
Miss wrote:
18 Jan 2018, 11:53
With "Maniaplanet system", do you basically just mean dedicated servers & solo play? If so, what would you suggest they add so that demo players can find this? (Aside from scrapping channels, of course..)
Nope, I mean everything: Profiles, Playerpage, Stations, buddylist system, planets, manialink, Editor, Solomode, Online-mode, local-mode, Media-tracker,... etc. They will never come in touch with it, they only have the current channel for SM/TM (or am I wrong?^^)
While you may be right that those free players never get in touch with this, you could argue that most players will never touch this. Imagine casual players who just want to play a round of Trackmania after work -- why would they have a need to touch the editors/profiles/buddies/stations/mediatracker/? Most of those are things you'd only touch if you were a big fan of the game and have been in the community for a much longer time. I know that was the case for me when I started playing Canyon again in 2014.

The point I'm trying to make is - if you're a player who enjoys the game for long enough, you'll eventually find out how to change your avatar, how to make maps, etc., if they really wanted to. It's quite natural.

But again, I am still curious, what would you add to the current system to improve this aside from reverting the demo players back to how it was in MP3?
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Re: Review after 11 years Trackmania

Post by kripkee » 18 Jan 2018, 15:46

Miss wrote:
18 Jan 2018, 13:09
kripkee wrote:
18 Jan 2018, 12:59
Miss wrote:
18 Jan 2018, 11:53
With "Maniaplanet system", do you basically just mean dedicated servers & solo play? If so, what would you suggest they add so that demo players can find this? (Aside from scrapping channels, of course..)
Nope, I mean everything: Profiles, Playerpage, Stations, buddylist system, planets, manialink, Editor, Solomode, Online-mode, local-mode, Media-tracker,... etc. They will never come in touch with it, they only have the current channel for SM/TM (or am I wrong?^^)
While you may be right that those free players never get in touch with this, you could argue that most players will never touch this. Imagine casual players who just want to play a round of Trackmania after work -- why would they have a need to touch the editors/profiles/buddies/stations/mediatracker/? Most of those are things you'd only touch if you were a big fan of the game and have been in the community for a much longer time. I know that was the case for me when I started playing Canyon again in 2014.

The point I'm trying to make is - if you're a player who enjoys the game for long enough, you'll eventually find out how to change your avatar, how to make maps, etc., if they really wanted to. It's quite natural.

But again, I am still curious, what would you add to the current system to improve this aside from reverting the demo players back to how it was in MP3?
We are swimming in objective opinions here^^. The current solutions is too simple and it does not show the power which maniaplanet has. Here a small view if someone is starting TM the first time:
https://www.sloppi.de/pic/FreeView.jpg

I would prefer the left one, because I can explore the whole game. On the right side, I wouldn't really know what I have to do there, I might click on something and then I might suddenly join a channel ^^
In this case, I wish Maniaplanet should not look like this if I should bought all envis^^ :
https://www.sloppi.de/pic/MP.jpg
But I already saw other screenshots with way more stations which make it even more complex. I believe we need a "hybrid" solution, which allows you to have a channel in each game category (TM²/SM/QM) with limited function for soloplay, editor, local play and profile. The current structure won't allow it right now. Let's see what happens in MP5 with UI/structure. If the new player like the System, he might to upgrade his account in a unlimited account (with all envis) or semi-unlimited account (with all functions for 1 envi) because of whatever reasons^^. He/she could play way more longer and could build up a fun/comp team, because he/she understands, how maniaplanet and the games inside works.

With an Add-on Titlepack system inside TM² / SM / QM category, you can easily increase the content of TM² / SM because thanks to the creator. And with one global server, which show everything what is related to this category, you can simply create a message with a download like/site like "you need Add-on title X to play on this server" and your TM² content will be increased. (Of course it's a short think way, cause you could dublicate some blocks in the editor, but this should be problem if you say, build a map with Add-on Titlepack X) ^^

And even with the current free accsess thing, we have a average maximum peak of ~30-40 Players (TM²/SM) in the channels?^^ This is far from "active" for a game like Trackmania / Shootmania.

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Re: Review after 11 years Trackmania

Post by MTKD » 18 Jan 2018, 16:27

I have Two Trackmania United Forever accounts, i tryed out the game in the freezone,
basically, the freezone doesn't bring all users to buy this game, i bought it because i liked it
the environments are nice of course

i could remember the freezone before i had my first united account 6 years ago
the freezone replaced the address of a server and has leaded to
"NOT A FREEZONE SERVER" there was a comment text "This is not a freezone server, to join all servers you need to upgrade to an Trackmania United Forever Account, Get It! upgrade informations: on some url"
it's the 178.33 IP

i tested the MP demos with different accounts by the way:
on maniaplanet v2 the aniversary demos was nice

on maniaplanet v3 the demo times was ok, both sides was able to chat together, and the players was able to join servers that are not hosted by nadeo, and i remember that players have asked me that they want to buy this game and if it's a good choice (of course my answer was yes)

on maniaplanet v4 channels, i play rarely on it, the channels are ok, but in additon with the MP3 demo mode it's better to promote, players play 1 hour the title, and then they will be restricted to channels again (yes maybe someone from nadeo notices this message from elsewhere :D )

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Re: Review after 11 years Trackmania

Post by null8fuenf10 » 18 Jan 2018, 21:51

kripkee is absolutly right. This looks not good, only the channels for DemoPlayers. I think also, that 1 hour or 30min. for each Envi, and then restricted to channels only, would be the best for DemoPlayers to get involved in the Maniaplanet System. Maybe restricted access to the Editor, with Blocklimits for DemoMapper.

Miss wrote:
17 Jan 2018, 14:16
While you may be right in some things, I disagree with a few:

I don't think in-game tutorials for in-game mod tools are absolutely necessary. Especially in the case of the level editor, it's incredibly easy to understand. The car painter, same thing. Even recently, the Title Maker makes making title packs SO much easier and more accessible. It gets more complex when you start messing with the mesh editor, custom items, scripting, maniatracker, etc, but those are all advanced tools. (Additionally, level editor and other tools already have a button that gives you some basic help about shortcuts and such - the "question mark button".)
Absolutly necessary, no, a nice looking Feature, yes! And then, with the Questionmark Button you get a short overview, but at least not all KBShortcuts for the Editor. And not for all people, its easy to understand. It's easy to set and rotate a block, but to build a nice map with many Features, like Intro, GPS etc. it needs more knowledge. In other Game Tutorials, you learn how to move with WSAD and aim with mouse, thats incredible easy, too, but they have the Tutorial. Thats why i said, Beginner, Advanced and Expert Tutorials. But i understand, that would be a much amount of work. Don't know, they or we could realize that.


opreax wrote:
18 Jan 2018, 09:50
TMT had to be salvation, best trackmania with united enviroments where all players will unite and transfer from tm2/tm1 to TMT. But no, you must fu*k it up. Best thing on it is that TM2 is even more dead than TMT, yesterday I was playing TMT in room with 20 people. TM2 Valley + Lagoon = less than 10 people.
Nobody fucks something up. TMT was and will never be a Maniaplanet or TM1/TM2 replacement. I bought it only, to support NADEO and i hoped that MP4 with Lagoon Release, comes back to the Spirit of old days. Then, to my surprise, i saw that TMT do so much things better, then MP4. Easy Creation of a room/server, easy MultiEnvi and so on..., but that you can't name your tracks, and can't skin your car, thats not Trackmania for me.

And that is what make me sad, i have two Games TM2 and TMT each of them give me half of the Fun i except from a Trackmania from NADEO.

But enough cried, in this thing TMarc is right! We should look what we can do, with them what we have and build on them, to make Trackmania great again. And how to bring players back to Game and to MultiEnvi Servers (not Channel) from MrSloppis Titlepack. 8-)

This would be great, too: http://www.tm-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=36852
I know the Thread and the idea is old and this (maybe), never will happen. But i think this would be the best to reunite all players. And then move forward with MP5. They made a Petition at Change.org, to release TMUF HD, in Maniaplanet. Wow. :shock:

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null8fuenf10 :pil

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Re: Review after 11 years Trackmania

Post by Miss » 18 Jan 2018, 22:52

Well like I said, the maniatracker stuff is advanced. Also, I've never used intros/gps's in my maps because ... why would I? People skip the intro, and GPS should not be required to be able to know how to drive a map. Basic game design principles goes a long way, such as visual cues and/or just straight out players learning as they go.) None of my maps have a GPS or intro in it, and I have plenty of maps that people thoroughly enjoy. (This is not really an argument against having tutorials of course, but I just thought it's important to say that knowing how to make intros/GPS's in the maniatracker are not necessary at all. Also consider that none of Nadeo's official maps have any of these things.)

Edit: I just thought of 1 counter argument for the above paragraph, and that is automatic camera changes, which does require some maniatracker stuff. I've barely ever done those camera changes because I don't like to do all the looping stuff in my Canyon maps, but you see my point.

I said it before somewhere, but I don't believe it's possible to have a "TM2 United". Here's some questions you can think about: How would you release it? How much would you sell it for? Would it be *yet* another TMT, where people don't want to buy all the environments again? Or do players who own all the games get it for free? Is it fair if players who own some (or 1) game (but not all) get it, compared to people who bought more of Nadeo's games? Realistically, I don't think it's possible.
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