Review after 11 years Trackmania

[Demented]

In fact in some ways the old TM2 title is better. You can still "select all" replays in a folder with one click (although playing multiple replays is broken after last update), play any environment without switching (even Lagoon works) and use the enviro-mixing feature to create tracks with any car in any env (with exception to Stadium).

nice propaganda : https://www.sloppi.de/pic/replays_sloppi.avi
I can "select all" replays in any folder. I can open multiple replays btw.
it has exactly the same functions like the old TM²Titlepack has right now.

Propaganda? Thanks for jumping to that conclusion.
I guess I need to clarify; What I meant is that the old TM2 title is better in some ways than the new MP4 stand alone environments.
I'm not trying to step on any toes here. I actually think what you've done is quite cool, I'd just like to see the return of the official Title and one big reason for me is; I can't play the MrSlopi title offline.

[null8fuenf10]

Sorry for late reply.

Well like I said, the maniatracker stuff is advanced. Also, I've never used intros/gps's in my maps because ... why would I? People skip the intro, and GPS should not be required to be able to know how to drive a map. Basic game design principles goes a long way, such as visual cues and/or just straight out players learning as they go.) None of my maps have a GPS or intro in it, and I have plenty of maps that people thoroughly enjoy. (This is not really an argument against having tutorials of course, but I just thought it's important to say that knowing how to make intros/GPS's in the maniatracker are not necessary at all. Also consider that none of Nadeo's official maps have any of these things.)

Edit: I just thought of 1 counter argument for the above paragraph, and that is automatic camera changes, which does require some maniatracker stuff. I've barely ever done those camera changes because I don't like to do all the looping stuff in my Canyon maps, but you see my point.

I never saw not your point. But do you see my point? As i said before, no it's not necessary but it would be a nice and usefull Feature.
Yes, its true that people can enjoy maps without GPS and Intros. But when it comes to some complexer maps a GPS is really usefull and i used this feature often to experience a complexer map i've never driven before, also it's a kind of personalisation to make a Intro for a builded map.
And that you don't use some or many available Features in your maps, means not they don't exists. Fact is they exists but they are not or not well explained, maybe you would use more Features too, when they where better explained? And i think this explanations should be available ingame and in the form of Tutorials. From Beginner, through Advanced to Expert.

How would you release it?

Release as Titlepack. All Records from TMUF, should be transfered to MP4. And people should can migrate their TMUF Accounts!

How much would you sell it for? Would it be *yet* another TMT, where people don't want to buy all the environments again? Or do players who own all the games get it for free? Is it fair if players who own some (or 1) game (but not all) get it, compared to people who bought more of Nadeo's games?

Maybee 25,-$. People who own TMUnited get it for free!!!

Realistically, I don't think it's possible.

Possible is anything. The Question is, would it be worth the amount of work!? Realistically, maybe no.

But maybe its possible, that the old TMUF will be accessible from within Maniaplanet!
So that the Players has one Platform to start and then can choose in which Game/Title they play TMNF, TMUF, TM2 or (TMT).
So, is all back under one hood.
Patch TMUF that it starts in MP4! Maybe this can be done without much amount of work? (When this is possible, make the same for TMT!?)

On the other side, there is the Titlpack TM2 United Forever in MP4, its very nice and it must be a lot of work.
viewtopic.php?f=538&t=29811

But don't know if Players who owns the real TMUF, really want to play this Title?! Cause the physics are a little different(especially Dessert), and they can't migrate their Profiles, Records and/or creations from TMUF.

Edit about the physics: I saw in the Thread from the Titlepack, that the creator wants to make it possible, to make the two wheeled Dessert Physics, but this Feature can't be implented cause of a missing Feature in MP4.
viewtopic.php?f=538&t=29811&p=294649#p294697

He and the creator from the TrackmaniaOne Project suggested and asked about the integration of this and some other Features, but they still wait for a response from NADEOs side.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=43284

Then there is the TrackmaniaOne Project with the already released Title Alpine.
viewtopic.php?f=538&t=38488&start=20#p272681
It brings the old Snow Feeling back. And it looks and feels great. I really like it.

They want to rebuild all the old Envis from TMUF. The next will be Trackmania One Speed, which is a rebuild from Dessert.
viewtopic.php?f=538&t=38488&start=160#p294553

This Project also looks very very promising to have Fun with!

But i don't understand why there are two Projects, instead of One Big Project. And i don't know how to get many people interested and involved in these Titles.

We need a way and the One burning idea to bring people to the Game! And we need NADEOs help, for publishing or bring some kind of Special Deals to the World.

Please, NADEO Team. Don't let us faithfull players alone on this mission. Many of us support you and have trust in you since 10 or more years!

Greetings
null8fuenf10

[null8fuenf10]

I think it was a good Idea from Nadeo to start this survey. I fear it might be influenced since only active trackmaniacs (and shoortmaniacs) will participate.

I think so, too! Maybe Nadeo should do the survey, also in TMUF, TMNF and TMT. And ask, what people think about MP4.

In my opinion Nadeo should have only 1 priority only at the moment: get more players to this game. To me it feels like a lot of priority went into all these titlepack tools to help the creative community but the question here is: can the creative community increase the number of active players? In my opinion not in the current state of the game. Therefore I still fear the trend to less players will continue and the creative people will be disappointed and one after another quits contribution.

I think the only thing that the community can do is agree about the real problems behind missing players and stop with pointless discussions about irrelevant details. The solutions have to come from Nadeo. Maniaplanet can be only a success with Nadeo and the community can't do more than try to support.

Thats true. NADEO can't be happy with the amount of players. They created such beautyfull Enviroments and no one plays them.
That they gave and give the community so much Tools for Modding and Creations is really really great. But maybe they missed the part, for the normal Players.
Many Competitions, Challenges, daily - weekly - monthly Missions, Rewards (BonusSkins, access to Servers for a short Period of time, for Demo Players, when they are driving good at the Channels, etc.) and good promoting of them.

Also, i think better integration of Planets and Manialinks should be done. Many Manialinks don't work anymore.
I tried (in my eyes) important links like Maniapark and ManiaExchange, but they didn't work. I would implent both sites, ingame.
When you open Manialink Browser, first page should be a overview of such important sites. And it would make look the Game more polished and organized. And Planets, hmm ok i can buy stations and some skins or titles, but they feel somehow useless.

That looks all half baken, to the whole world.

I read once in another Thread here in Forum, that someone from NADEO said (don't know exactly who and where), we are no GameDevelopers, we are GameTool Developers.
So they give all the responsibility, to the community. In my eyes this is not enough engagement from NADEO side. When they want people/players back into Game they must be both. Game and GameTool Developers.

Lagoon is in fact a solo environment (zero populated server) and Valley is close to (one populated server). Even the ones that own 3 of 4 Environments (and probably also TM Turbo) cannot play Multi-Environment because they need to buy the dead and uninteresting Lagoon.
I can't play very nice TMPlus Maps anymore because the title has not been migrated to MP4 even if all maps can be migrated and played offline. So why is here the creativity of the past fully blocked? I dont get it. In fact with MP4 everything was done to destroy it and without Kripkes TP there would be no chance for Multi-Environment at all.

Lagoon in Maniaplanet? No, thank you - I don't want to pay for the same game twice, so I have only one Stadium (in TMUF) and one Lagoon (in TM Turbo). And as McBain said - it's not worth, because nobody plays it (thank you for info by the way).

TM2 title was in MP3. I haven't seen it in MP4 yet. Is it available?

No it isn't. For whatever reason, the titlepack hasn't been updated after the MP4 update which is a big shame as it really hurts the online community in my eyes.

Is Lagoon in MP4 not longer available for free, for the people who are owning TMT? When not, this is a must be...

And yes, that the TM2 Titlepack is not updated, its really a shame. That looks like NADEO have no more Fun too. No wunder, people leave.
The first thing after MP4 Update i've done was, that i wanted to start the TM2 Title and must saw, that the Title no longer worked.

Big THX for Mr. Sloppis to bring the possibility back. But i think, not enough people knows about it.

Maybe NADEO should make Lagoon or another Enviroment available for free (as some kind of GiveAway?), for a short period of time?

Another idea i have is, when NADEO everyone, who owns another Trackmania (TMO, TMS, TMU(F)), give one Enviroment of choice for free.

Maybe this would push Playerbase in near Death Enviroments.

Second, I understand the problem with TMAll not being available if you don't own all titlepacks, but I'm not sure there are any good solutions for this. I keep saying "what would you change" but nobody seems to have an idea in this area. (Which is fine, since Nadeo has to be the one making the decisions, and who knows, maybe they already have a solution in the back of their heads, but having a discussion about this in the community can still be encouraged.)

An idea is to make a Global Serverlist in MP4 and possibility to create Servers with only two or three Enviroments available, like it is in TMUF! Then people can filter out the Servers, with only the Enviroments they own.

Greetings
null8fuenf10

[Miss]

How would you release it?

Release as Titlepack. All Records from TMUF, should be transfered to MP4. And people should can migrate their TMUF Accounts!

How much would you sell it for? Would it be *yet* another TMT, where people don't want to buy all the environments again? Or do players who own all the games get it for free? Is it fair if players who own some (or 1) game (but not all) get it, compared to people who bought more of Nadeo's games?

Maybee 25,-$. People who own TMUnited get it for free!!!

Realistically, I don't think it's possible.

Possible is anything. The Question is, would it be worth the amount of work!? Realistically, maybe no.

But maybe its possible, that the old TMUF will be accessible from within Maniaplanet!
So that the Players has one Platform to start and then can choose in which Game/Title they play TMNF, TMUF, TM2 or (TMT).
So, is all back under one hood.
Patch TMUF that it starts in MP4! Maybe this can be done without much amount of work.

Hold on a second, we seem to be talking about 2 different things here. You're talking about porting TMUF over to ManiaPlanet. In which case, sure, that sounds fun, if Nadeo has some extra time, I'm sure they'd consider it as a nice extra, but that's definitely not a priority, at all.

I thought the discussion was about merging Canyon/Valley/Stadium/Lagoon into 1 game and releasing that.

[null8fuenf10]

No.

Did you not read the Thread from the Link i posted?
http://www.tm-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=36852

They wanted a remastered TMUF and they started a Petition at Change.org, to realize that and make NADEO attentively.

https://www.change.org/p/nadeo-ubisoft- ... m=copyLink
(This is the link to the old Petition)

I thought and think this would be nice,too. And pushes the actual Playerbase. More actual Players = more competition = more future new player.

Thats my way of thinking...
How we can bring more players to the Game. No matter if old players back or future new players!

Greetings
null8fuenf10

[i7mean]

TMUF to MP will NOT bring new players. Is Stadium² more populated than Stadium ? NO. (and it's even the most popular envi).

EDIT: stop talking about adding this adding that adding and adding again, this is NOT the problem of MP, focus on what the game actually has.

[Miss]

No.

Did you not read the Thread from the Link i posted?
http://www.tm-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=36852

They wanted a remastered TMUF and they started a Petition at Change.org, to realize that and make NADEO attentively.

https://www.change.org/p/nadeo-ubisoft- ... m=copyLink
(This is the link to the old Petition)

I thought and think this would be nice,too. And pushes the actual Playerbase. More actual Players = more competition = more future new player.

Thats my way of thinking...
How we can bring more players to the Game. No matter if old players back or future new players!

Greetings
null8fuenf10

Okay, then we misunderstood each other. TMUF in MP would be nice, but I personally don't see it helping much in terms of players, since you're mostly just looking at getting an older audience from your previous game into MP.

At this point I can't really say what would bring in more players, aside from "make more content" and "marketing".

[null8fuenf10]

TMUF to MP will NOT bring new players. Is Stadium² more populated than Stadium ? NO. (and it's even the most popular envi).

EDIT: stop talking about adding this adding that adding and adding again, this is NOT the problem of MP, focus on what the game actually has.

We talked not only about porting TMUF to MP. We discuss how we can attract more (new or old) players to MP. The Idea behind that is, when people would LogIn via Maniaplanet in TMUF/TMNF, they see all other Titles and Channels. And then they play on Channels and TM2 Servers, too. And the Playerbase raises. This Players otherwise never see and never will be attracted from the improvements in MP4.

With what the things the game actually has, we can not attract more people. Here are already so much fantastic new Projects and Titles, with the things the game actually has. But the Playerbase doesn't raise.

And we are mainly not talking about adding this and this. We talk about, how to merge the whole thing. To get easier access to all Envis in MP4.
And how to attract more players. Did you read only the last post?

When you have an idea, tell it to us. What do you think how we can get this done. Or it doesn't matter you, that there is so a little Playerbase?

Greetings
null8fuenf10

[i7mean]

(1) We talked not only about porting TMUF to MP. We discuss how we can attract more (new or old) players to MP. The Idea behind that is, when people would LogIn via Maniaplanet in TMUF/TMNF, they see all other Titles and Channels. And then they play on Channels and TM2 Servers, too. And the Playerbase raises. This Players otherwise never see and never will be attracted from the improvements in MP4.

(2) With what the things the game actually has, we can not attract more people.

(1) A lot of people (including me) said a whiiiiiile back ago that this is a shame that in TMU/N/F there are absolutely NO ADVERTISEMENT for Maniaplanet. Promotising Maniaplanet on the tmf platform should have been done since the beginning, and thus, we wouldn't need to implement all you said.
(no I didn't only read the last post, but my answer was based on what was written in this said last post). Now for the future, since we can't re-write the past, I'd suggest to at least TALK ABOUT Maniaplanet in TMF (because I HIGHLY doubt that Nadeo would make the effort to import the feature you want, and I reckon it would be a cool feature); I think just as little as talking about MP in TMF will make a difference.

(2)WE cannot attract more people, Nadeo/Ubisoft can. The problem is not the content of the game, since you can see that even a brand new environment like Lagoon or Valley back ago didn't survive 1 months with active players. I always thought that these new environments like Valley and Lagoon had bad physics, gameplay ect... (my opinion) but this only affects old players, new players don't know about this yet so this can't be the reason the game can't survive 1 month. But once again I think even that is futile, TM is about fun and fun can only be achieve for a multiplayer game when there are multiple players, which is not the case for TM anymore.

I love Stadium, I hate Lagoon. I'd rather play a populated Lagoon than a desertic Stadium.

[Demented]

These are my personal opinions.
I see two major problems that are a big cause of loss of Trackmania players.

1)- Every person I've showed this game to doesn't want to play it again because it's too hard to control the cars (mostly in Valley and Lagoon).
I personally love all four of the MP4 environments but it took quite some time to get use to the handling of some of the vehicles and most new users don't want to take that time. They want to be able to play it within a few minutes or they will move on. Lagoon made me cuss a lot before I got the hang of it and darn near made me quit TM altogether out of frustration.
There's nothing that can be done about that now, without resetting all records and doing a major overhaul of control physics.

2)- The other major problem I see is;
Future development really needs to be put on hold for the moment and all focus should be temporarily put into getting all the current bugs ironed out. MP4 is still very buggy and fixes seem to be coming at a trickle. Often fixing one bug generates new ones. Why add new content to bugged base. Get the problems fixed as quickly as possible so people can enjoy what has been created so far, then move forward on a more solid base.
Trackmania is such a cool game but it doesn't really matter if you can't fully play it. Seems over the past year there is always some aspect of it that I can't use or have to work around. Please finish what you have.