When are you going to finish Trackmania²?

[TMarc]

And nobody forced you to spend any amount on the game, regardless if it is the original release price or sales discounts.

If you are not willing or not able to give concrete information why the game is not working for you, we can close this topic.

[JakJak]

I answer you here in the order of your text:

I'm not just talking about bugs here, I'm talking about problems on TM² in general.


for Miss :
- The game does not work properly for everyone, I express this on observations expressed on this forum.
- All these problems are identical to the problems in my game as well.
- This is a statement, the game does not work; they are therefore: all proofs of the different players.

- I don't want to put any pressure on Nadeo.
- Please do not take this subject personally for yourself, I am addressing to everyone not only you.

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For Tm Marc :
- I gave concrete information for the problems of your games, but that's not the subject of this post, you cannot close an item that is not resolved.
- Yes, no one forced me to buy your video game. this is a personal feeling,you may not agree with my feeling I can perfectly understand it

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- The subject is a question I'd like an answer!


Thank you !
Sincerely

[TMarc]

Really?
This is leading nowhere.

If you would read and try to understand the messages from Nadeo members, you would see that:
a) many of the reported bugs are being fixed, but nobody can tell which ones are being considered by Nadeo in which order
b) there won't be any clear forecast about the current and future development. There are vague announcements and rumors which are derived from that
c) like Trackmania (original / nations / forever) the development and the support might be stopped any time without further notice. This will most likely happen when a completely new generation of Trackmania will be released, or when Nadeo will not invest anything anymore in Trackmania2/Maniaplanet

You can now guess what you want

But if you don't bring up concrete points which are blocking you from playing, this topic will not be of any use. Neither for the other players, because the games are actually working very well for most people, nor for Nadeo, because they need precise hints and not just general feeling.

If you want a "finished" game, take Trackmania Turbo. There is another official forum for it btw.

[JakJak]

Thank you for your answer and analysis tm Marc

I still haven't received an official answer about my question.

- Nevertheless:
Thank you for partially answering me on some observations in this topic on TM² in general.
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- Is this a statement of fact?

Neither for the other players, because the games are actually working very well for most people

I base myself on facts, do you have any evidence / statistics of what you say here ? (it would be interesting to conduct a public survey (yes / no)

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- How can you affirm what nadeo needs?
- You work at nadeo ?

General problems are not feelings but specific facts :

because they need precise hints and not just general feeling.

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-Trackmania turbo is better finished yes, but we can't create anything.

[TMarc]

I am playing Trackmania nearly since it was released, and I am part of the Maniaplanet forum team since a long time.
I have seen many many bug reports, from simple installation and account related issues to complex problems like the server memory overrun. I have seen some closed and public tests.
And I have seen many happy players here and on the servers.

Of course no software is free of bugs, the question is only how critical the bugs are.
And I am pretty confident that Nadeo is not letting us down, despite their less frequent participation in everydays topics here.
But they are working, more in the background.

I am not working for Nadeo, and I don't know what they are doing.
On the same time, you are not speaking for the whole community, and you also don't know what "all the players" want.
This is simply impossible and unrealistic.

You have to understand and accept that, and stop questioning everything all the time.

I think your initial question has been answered.

[JakJak]

Okay tm Marc: thumbsup:
Thank you for telling me what you are doing on this forum, I didn't know it.

Concerning my questions from my old message , you can't answer them:

here :

- Is this a statement of fact?

Neither for the other players, because the games are actually working very well for most people

I base myself on facts, do you have any evidence / statistics of what you say here ? (it would be interesting to conduct a public survey (yes / no)

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- How can you affirm what nadeo needs?
- You work at nadeo ?

General problems are not feelings but specific facts :

because they need precise hints and not just general feeling.

end of quotations .

these are just your words, no evidence.
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- I wrote that I was addressing "to" everyone, not "for" everyone (community), please read my Tm marc sentences carefully to be precise about our discussions

- I totally agree there will always be bugs in a video game

*Our point of view differs :
- It is important to question something, especially if it has many general problems and if it was created a long time ago !
(it allows to understand the different, to prioritize its functioning and to allow its improvement. )


-There is no answer here that corresponds to my question from my topic.
(I would expect an official answer here, from the nadeo administration since no one can answer my question )

Thank you very much. !

Sincerely

[Miss]

- Is this a statement of fact?

Neither for the other players, because the games are actually working very well for most people

I base myself on facts, do you have any evidence / statistics of what you say here ? (it would be interesting to conduct a public survey (yes / no)

Sure. Let's look at some numbers!

Unique Stadium players in the last 24 hours: 5387 (Playing right now as I'm writing this: 546)
Unique Canyon players in the last 24 hours: 978 (Playing: 101)
Unique Valley players in the last 24 hours: 174 (Playing: 14)
Unique Lagoon players in the last 24 hours: 157 (Playing: 6)

Some Stadium server slots sorted from highest to lowest as I'm writing this: 63, 45, 36, 34, 24, 20, 16, 11, 11, 10, 9, ...

Pretty high numbers! Lots of players there. Now, let's take a look at some other numbers.

"MP4.1 REPORTS / BUGS / INFORMATION" forum: 191 topics
Amount of posts in the "Help and Tips" forum on Steam for Stadium: 236 (note this is from since Stadium was released)
Last couple post dates on that Steam forum: April 12th, April 5th, April 1st, March 29th, February 14th, January 12th, ... (The "General Discussions" forum on Steam is very similar.)

If you take into account that those 191 topics contain fixed issues AND contain issues that are definitely not game breaking, the ratio between amount of players and amount of serious game-breaking issues is extremely low.

Ps: A "public survey" will yield unrealistic and biased results towards players who are having troubles, as people with issues often come to forums looking for support, while players without any issues will never even look at the forum.

- How can you affirm what nadeo needs?

Think of it this way - imagine someone commissions you to do a car skin for them. You make the skin, but then they tell you that they don't like the skin, but they're not saying why. They're just asking you "when will you finish the skin?" Would you have an answer to that question, or would you rather they tell you exactly what they wanted changed?

[JakJak]

Re miss
I am pleased to consider my analysis here

I will answer you in the order of your message:


1st) Your comparison is interesting and yes there are players playing at tm², but out of scope on my previous point:
-You compare here 2 different things:
The number of people connected and whether the game works very well for a large part of the players.
previous quotation :

Neither for the other players, because the games are actually working very well for most people

This is not an equivalent comparison
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2nd) You do not take into consideration the different general topics of the forum but only 2 categorys :

-You are right all the topics are not related to problems of tm².
-But there are not only these 2 categories in the forum, and many of your 2 categories talk about unresolved problems today

You were partly right about the survey, that's true, but here we have a game where many people have problems with tm².
(I'm not talking about a scale of problems here, I'm still general)

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3) I like your last comparison sincerely!
the creation of a skin does not work the same as the creation of a video game:

**To resume your comparison**:
when a creator releases a public version of a Paid skins with lots of general problems.
That this creator updates and creates other general problems
People who have purchased this skin are entitled to ask when it will be finished definitively

If I take your element of comparison with my skin and trackmania² :
- Your comparison does not work because has already been created (trackmania is not under construction).
- I can't tell if I like trackmania² or not when the game has not yet been released (before 2011).
- This is about finalizing a game that doesn't work properly and which was publicly launched in 2011.


To answer you it is better to finish the skins and see "AFTER" what needs to be changed !
*I don't create a public skin that doesn't work for everyone , especially if it is not free of charge !
*when I update my skin it is functional for everyone .




Thanks for this message I like it when we try to change our points of view

[om23]

hahaha, very good question!


sry, I didn´t read the whole thread for now,
stoped here.

Hi,
I can add that we also have a great list of bugs provided by Eyebo and Shootmania players, which also help us to prioritize things as the team works on new stuff a lot as well.

you see the problem?

I really do not know anybody from Nadeo, but must be kind of weird nerd team!

answer: NEVER?
problem: with every update there are two new bugs for one fixed bug!
solution: stop doing new stuff and fix bugs only!

commercial business analization and optimization may cost some money, it´s up to you to honor my thoughts with some cash!


meilleures salutations

[JakJak]

Hi Om 23

I will try to respond pragmatically to your message:

The problem of the example you state is indeed embarrassing on 2 points of view: ( this is only my personal interpretation):

*To summarize: To have players help on priorities by helping players with their own problems in their games, suggests a lack of team professionalism + a lack of organization.

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To go further in my personal analysis:
I would like to raise other arguments here, which against this example:

1)) For the lack of organization: Nadeo seems to be attached to this method of organizing and building work for "maniaplanet" ( putting the creators of the game and some working players (in your example: feedback) together without direct barriers).

**Personal interpretation: It seems strange and complex for several reasons: ( I don't blame your example of eyebo here: it does an incredible job)

a/ A player who is privileged and selected by Nadeo because he does a good job can understand this for several reasons:
- It highlights the people who work hard to help Nadeo
- It creates different strong elements between Nadeo and these people and can allow them to evolve personally


b/ But it creates other troubles for other reasons:
- This can attract jealousy from other players especially if Nadeo expresses it publicly (because there is no equity with other players)
- This mainly creates misunderstandings about their methods of internal organization (I think these are what you express in your 1st part of your message) because few game creators proceed in this way!
- Paradoxically, this also raises questions about their internal communication.


2)) For the lack of professionalism: by creating Tm Turbo, they did not get help on the priorities for organizing their games expressed by the players.

In conclusion ( and in a personal capacity):
*With your example: this shows that nadeo creates difficulties in their choice of communication strategy for their customers .

*Nadeo has made mistakes in the past because they have not given enough thought to the public consequences on their players this is one of the reasons why it no longer publicly shares their future goals (everyone makes human mistakes).

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**Answer : For Nadeo's answers, I have the same observation as you, they answer few in the forum and are not very active (on a personal basis), but he answers easily in private message (personally)

**Problems: I confirm, This has already been noticed a lot of times since mp3 and that's the reason for creating this topic
Your solution is a logical complement here!

Thank you for debating and sharing your point of view here