WorkInProgress TrackMania 2 Environment

[TheM]

I think the idea you're coming with is interesting.
However, I have one big question: if it's possible to change the carhandling (the rest is already possible), what's the point of having new games from Nadeo?

For the moment, I think that Nadeo has much more stuff to do - which in my eyes has higher priorities than this possible addition.

[florenzius01]

Yes, this is a difficult question, but I think that the handling of a previous Trackmania 2 games copied and can be changed. In the beginning, however, we proticec first the simple and well usable Canyon.

[florenzius01]

In the construction phase and release phase, we will probably create a completely new, with several independent ManiaPlanet account and then upload anything with him and test.

Hopefully Nadeo comes with the account against something

[florenzius01]

domino54 logo/images/menu design
I'm open for that ^^

That sounds good!

[LT.Forever]

I can give you 100% it's impossible to change the handling as it requires access to the game physics engine itself and I'm still very pessimistic about this project.

[meuh21]

This is a new environment, so new cars, new car handlings, new landscape - new Trackmania. Thats not seasons or mods

I think the idea you're coming with is interesting.
However, I have one big question: if it's possible to change the carhandling (the rest is already possible), what's the point of having new games from Nadeo?

This is a new environment, so new cars, new car handlings, new landscape - new Trackmania. Thats not seasons or mods

What is an environment ? For my part, I think it is a game made by Nadeo.

So next question is : how players can make a title close to an environnement ?
New Landscape : It is possible to put a huge Item call lanscape. But I think it is not a very pratical solution. A mod with a few lanscape Item is a much better solution.

Blocks = Items So it's okay except maybe for the lightmap and also it is a little more difficult to use. but more possibilities than with a block

Car : not possible right now. I have ask this for a lon time. But because it seems to be possible in Shootmania, i guess it could be possible for TM in the future.

Car handling : This is the big part. 2 ways are possible : materials or car parameters.

Materials : it's already possible to have a new car handling with current cars. For ex with ice in RaidValley, you can find blocks (objets in fact but very similar) and a totaly new car handling. With materials and mix-environnement, possibilities are huge. You need to find the right material. There are many materials but just a few produce a special carhandling right now. So in this way, it needs Nadeo help. Hylis could modify material parameters on materials wich are not use in a environnement. And between TM² materials, TMU materials and Storm materials you can find many solutions
Topic in French about materials : http://forum.maniaplanet.com/viewtopic. ... 21&t=27873

Car parameters : You can modify only 2 parameters : Acceleration and ControlCoef. And value >1 are not possible. So you can make you're own car but with only small possibilities.

I ask to Hylis to open more gameplay customization (car parameters and materials). It seems to be not really for now... I understand why. Nadeo strategy is : step by step. it's not my point of view but we are not at the place This decision is much more important for Nadeo than for me.

So it is possible to make right now a title that many people could call "environment". But carhandling possibilities are limited.

Because car and/or material parameters are in the flow of history we can think about future. Why it is interesting to do a "environnement-title" ? If it is just be proud to do something like Nadeo is doing, it is not interesting for me. It is just a excercise in this case (even if we need to practice). A title is really interesting if it can bring diversity. And to bring that you need to think about what ambiance you would like. Blocks, cars, lanscape have to be coherent but it is the second step. First one it to have a idea

A community title could be a awesome experience. I think in the future we could find more group projects to reach quality and originality. Maniacenter will have a project section where community could combine competences.

To bring fun and diversity to players

[Hylis]

I also would like to deal well the parameter of the materials, and have already designed a solution based on xml remapping or attribution for mods etc. It's something I would love to see that asphalt converted to snow can slide. It's also for trails etc. But it's just too long to make at the moment for all the impacts.

Things are really often complicated. For example, on the embeded items at the moment, you have to deal with the server loading only the physical surface, like it's doing, or to the client loading optimizer to manage well the memory about them (while for an environment, there are optimizations to keep data from maps to maps) So, we made a little virtual file system inside the map file that provide a priority over items that would have the same name in local, out of the map. And I think we would still have tons of things that could make it better. So, for the physical parameters, it could be complicated: what about a mods of items that are embeded with a mods of physicial parameters that have to be forced to download because of the physicial changes it generates? ^_^

For the car controls, any car in the real world are probably below our car, so <1 is not that big limitation. I hope you have tried to change the parameters already, because it's truely interesting and impressive how it changes things. We are looking to enable the force model function, and the sample I was giving to support this priority was to select a car with the control in solo modes like Raid. But if that interesting thing is not used, it will probably not be a motivation to push even further, becaus I know what it can already do, and that they are the most important parameters. There is a lack of a third one and to complete these ones, but I don't think it's the right time to do it. Power Up! is about making gameplay "modifiers" more visible (clear icons) I don't want players to guess that the jumps are +31% or +34% high. I want to have an icon of "jump boost +30%" that is easily made & shared by player in favor of a core gameplay, with modifiers, instead of a more blurry situation. We will probably slowly revome some parameters from the script to move them to actions, in order to help this. But if we would have opened too much before, it would take us even more time to do this and potentially cause too many manipulations from us or creators to update to the changes.

It's a long comment, but I hope it will help a little to understand.

Even if we spent some time in 2009 to design a technical solution to enable the creation of environments itself, it was really too 'big' for many reasons. So, there are technical limitations to what would be called an environment made by players, but it is totally feasible to make a complete set of data, and to change the gameplay, to provide another feeling and taste. I think that 7 environments was becoming a lot, and that we chosed to take our time to make TM2, with bigger datas required etc. We have time ahead, and that's great! And with the demo and player projects like this one, I think the time is eventually easier to see going.

In fact, we look more at enabling the power of players to combine on less ambitious steps than a complete environment, that can bring them on high level as well. If you download TM RPG, a mods and that you start to build tracks, you have this feeling of building on top of others contributions. This is why we do files for actions, items, mods etc. Even the server host is based on others contribution. And that's the true power of the amateurs compared to some pro situations were collaboration have to be made on mutual exchange of a same value. And this is why Hello Planet #4 was about the amateurs!

[meuh21]

I don't know how many parameters in the car and material are used in a environment (could be a nice story to explain us how you design a gameplay ) I'm just trying to understand how it works and what can be done. Because i would love to have some more cars in Raid but i am even not a amateur here, just a noob

So, for the physical parameters, it could be complicated: what about a mods of items that are embeded with a mods of physicial parameters that have to be forced to download because of the physicial changes it generates? ^_^

Maybe it is a too easy solution . I suggest another solution. You can change parameters for materials not used in a environment. So we can maybe find some interesting things like ice in RaidValley (even if i guess many people dislike driving on ice ). The goal is just to have a a few new materials in a title. This is a small step and you control almost everything here (but it need time and i know there are many priorities )

For the car controls, any car in the real world are probably below our car, so <1 is not that big limitation. I hope you have tried to change the parameters already, because it's truely interesting and impressive how it changes things. We are looking to enable the force model function, and the sample I was giving to support this priority was to select a car with the control in solo modes like Raid. But if that interesting thing is not used, it will probably not be a motivation to push even further, because I know what it can already do, and that they are the most important parameters.

I made some quick test about parameters. But in Raid there are many offroad and if i decrease acceleration it don't sound good. And control value seems to be quite low in valley and canyon already so... More important i don't want to have a gameplay too close to environment gamaplay. I think it is better to keep the same gameplay or to make big changes. his is for the car, for material it could be different. Last thing, Spaii made some test with value >1 when it was possible. And if i read well, it was more interesting than now Maybe also a new carhandling need new objects. But many objects and Items are already done so... That's is why i wrote in a other topic : for strategic features we need to know what could or will be done because it takes a long time to make mods, objects, maps, etc...

Force model fonction is very interesting. I think about that for a long time : http://www.meuhmania.com/raid2/?p=728 But it is the same for me : "it will probably not be a motivation to push even further" if i don't know if it will happen. So I stop to create special models for Raid (also because import from Blender is very difficult and because i can't do so many things...)

Je dis souvent que j'ai toujours un plan sur 5 ans, que je change chaque jour.

Bon, si ma feuille de route un peu évoluée, je suis plus stable que toi. Il faut dire que je maîtrise beaucoup moins de facteurs... En fait, je doute de ton affirmation Je crois que l'objectif et les lignes générales du plan sont parfaitement réfléchies. C'est la tactique qui évolue. L'agilité au service d'une vision ou d'une top priorité

I know it's french in english topic but sometimes it is nice to be a little bit transgressive

In conclusion about gameplay, i think it is just the beggining of the story. Of course we need to understand how it works. I don't know if it is better to start with 2 parameters and to be obsolete at the next step or to wait for more possibilities.

[mvv0105]

Hm. And what environment you want create? Try port TM Sunrise into 1 environment

[florenzius01]

This is a new environment, so new cars, new car handlings, new landscape - new Trackmania. Thats not seasons or mods

I think the idea you're coming with is interesting.
However, I have one big question: if it's possible to change the carhandling (the rest is already possible), what's the point of having new games from Nadeo?

This is a new environment, so new cars, new car handlings, new landscape - new Trackmania. Thats not seasons or mods

What is an environment ? For my part, I think it is a game made by Nadeo.

So next question is : how players can make a title close to an environnement ?
New Landscape : It is possible to put a huge Item call lanscape. But I think it is not a very pratical solution. A mod with a few lanscape Item is a much better solution.

Blocks = Items So it's okay except maybe for the lightmap and also it is a little more difficult to use. but more possibilities than with a block

Car : not possible right now. I have ask this for a lon time. But because it seems to be possible in Shootmania, i guess it could be possible for TM in the future.

Car handling : This is the big part. 2 ways are possible : materials or car parameters.

Materials : it's already possible to have a new car handling with current cars. For ex with ice in RaidValley, you can find blocks (objets in fact but very similar) and a totaly new car handling. With materials and mix-environnement, possibilities are huge. You need to find the right material. There are many materials but just a few produce a special carhandling right now. So in this way, it needs Nadeo help. Hylis could modify material parameters on materials wich are not use in a environnement. And between TM² materials, TMU materials and Storm materials you can find many solutions
Topic in French about materials : http://forum.maniaplanet.com/viewtopic. ... 21&t=27873

Car parameters : You can modify only 2 parameters : Acceleration and ControlCoef. And value >1 are not possible. So you can make you're own car but with only small possibilities.

I ask to Hylis to open more gameplay customization (car parameters and materials). It seems to be not really for now... I understand why. Nadeo strategy is : step by step. it's not my point of view but we are not at the place This decision is much more important for Nadeo than for me.

So it is possible to make right now a title that many people could call "environment". But carhandling possibilities are limited.

Because car and/or material parameters are in the flow of history we can think about future. Why it is interesting to do a "environnement-title" ? If it is just be proud to do something like Nadeo is doing, it is not interesting for me. It is just a excercise in this case (even if we need to practice). A title is really interesting if it can bring diversity. And to bring that you need to think about what ambiance you would like. Blocks, cars, lanscape have to be coherent but it is the second step. First one it to have a idea

A community title could be a awesome experience. I think in the future we could find more group projects to reach quality and originality. Maniacenter will have a project section where community could combine competences.

To bring fun and diversity to players

You're right, Meuh21, but it should not be a mod like Raid or just a few new items. Because this all boils down to a basic game. Canyon. I have myself raid and find it very good. However, the project idea is to represent a new landscape. For example: in stage it The RPG guys managed the stadium in a 64x64 field. A new landscape that is still running at the moment on the stadium.