Some reflections about the solo mode

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7Alvin
Posts: 91
Joined: 19 Sep 2011, 18:43

Some reflections about the solo mode

Post by 7Alvin » 13 Aug 2013, 16:32

Hello everybody,

I would like to develop all the improvable points for the fun of the solo campaign that certainly the vast majority of people agree on it.

Your game is one of the best of the world in term of separated leaderboards by continents, countries and regions and an overall rankings with skillpoints to compare the most multipurpose players. I find it very good for the big competition on a very high level on each map thanks to this overall ranking. So I find it very unfortunate that this could spoil the fun of a large number of players. So, I fint it very unfortunate that this could ruin the fun of a large number of people.

To begin with, the 5 minutes to wait, what’s the point of this system apart to frustrate people to play passively during this time, instead of simply counting everything and play seriously all the time having more fun.

Then, the unique period of real trainings, as this is called, is when we start a map for the first time or when we’re training a new trick. But, when we’re trained enough, I don’t see the point of waiting five minutes, all the great times done deserve to be on the real leaderboard. There is nothing to see with the consistency, since someone can be consistent and always fail the official run and another person can be bad during all the 5 minutes and get a really lucky run in official. So, I think it’s pretty lucky.

To conclude, we can’t see the real best times (it’s what that almost everyone wishes) on a internet sites or manialink etc because there are always some people who aren’t on them. It’s often a limited rankings (Top 25 on Mania-Exchange and Top 6 on the manialink « Solomode » for example) since it needs a lot of power and memory. So why not using your awesome game to get all the real best times without limited rankings and missing people.

I saw a lot of motivated people for your great solo campaign, but, unfortunately, the official destroys the motivation, whatever the level of each player.

I really hope that you can understand the point of view of the solo players who care so much about the rankings. Thanks in advance for understanding us and we really hope that you can something with this.

edk
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Joined: 24 Jan 2013, 05:26
Location: California
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Re: Some reflections about the solo mode

Post by edk » 13 Aug 2013, 17:15

I think they've already addressed this and stated it's "on the to-do list". The official responses I've read in regards to this initially stated the timer was put in to place to limit server traffic, which seems reasonable to me. What has been stated recently is that they may make a slight change. Something along the lines of allowing players to build up official tries (5-10 or something) that you can use when you want. It would allow the player to build up tries the longer you play, but not surpassing a maximum amount.

I am for any system that cannot be exploited or offer an unfair advantage for certain players. As long as it's fair across the board I don't mind what the system is. As such, this is why I'm okay with the timer, because it's fair. I think the above stated change is a moderate way of going about things, in comparison to doing something extreme and just opening up every and any time someone wants to upload. I think there does need to be some added emphasis on official tries, rather than just our single best run.

I am under the impression that most player complaints in regards to the timer or more about personal frustration, rather than a legitimate complaint. That being said, more people interested in the game is not a bad thing, even if they decide to make the timer more newb friendly.

One thing I feel that should be changed is forcing players to get the gold medal on tracks in order to see the next one. It no doubt locks some people out completely on the harder tracks. I think silver should be enough or even all the tracks should simply be unlocked.

7Alvin
Posts: 91
Joined: 19 Sep 2011, 18:43

Re: Some reflections about the solo mode

Post by 7Alvin » 13 Aug 2013, 19:14

Yeah, if there is too much people trying in the same time i can be a small problem so why not upload in the ranking when we desire. But yeah like this some persons maybe won't upload their replay if they aren't happy with their times or something but at least we have more chances to get the real best times.

Poutrel
Posts: 172
Joined: 13 Apr 2011, 17:58

Re: Some reflections about the solo mode

Post by Poutrel » 13 Aug 2013, 22:08

The timer seems to be indeed the most fair way. Planets would be even more frustrating for those who don't have much.

I already did a post a while ago on my opinions and ideas, here it is :
Poutrel wrote:Very interesting topic! Thanks again Hylis for taking the time to listen to the community ! :clap:

I have some ideas for the solo mode.

Official Mode
I've thought of some other ways to do official times :
-What if, instead of a try every 5 min, the player had a fix amount of tries every day? To give 12 tries per day to a player would be like 1 h of hunting for example.
-We could also receive a certain amount of tries depending of hours played. A player could played a few hours online, then go back to the solo mode and made some attempts without waiting 5 min. Of course one issue could be that some people would left the game opened...
-The 5 min delay could also be mixed with a system of saving : For example, for all 15 min since you did your last official attempt, you have another try, waiting-free, when you'll go back in solo mode.

Unofficial Ranking :
I saw when connecting to my Canyon account on a friend's computer that I could see my unofficial PBs. So they are registered somewhere in Nadeo's databases. And since it's really hard to do its best time in official mode and it's even harder to wait the Nadeo leaderboard on MX (just kidding :thx: ), why couldn't we see the unofficial ranking on each map, which doesn't allow player to won any SkillPoints. It could be for example, after World, Country, and Player's ManiaZone. But I wonder if it would be reliable, because of cheaters.

Uploading limit :
I got a really bad internet connection, and I often got upload errors after an official try. :| I can't even do an official time on E05 when my connection is at its best! So I wonder if it would be possible to do something about the maximum delay.

To Solo Players (or Hylis :p ) : Tell me if you want me to do a separate topic.
I had other ideas, but now they're gone. x)
I'll add them later !

EDIT : Oh, btw, why can't we download other replays?

7Alvin
Posts: 91
Joined: 19 Sep 2011, 18:43

Re: Some reflections about the solo mode

Post by 7Alvin » 13 Aug 2013, 23:13

Yeah, I think it's important to be allowed to see any downloaded replays. The first reason is that we can control is it's a cheat or not easier. Second reason is that it can motivate a lot of people to see all the best runs to improve theirs pbs. Last reason is that we don't need a internet site or manialink etc to be able to upload the WRs on a youtube channel or somewhere else and a lot of people watch it and want all real WRs there.

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riolu
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Location: Germany

Re: Some reflections about the solo mode

Post by riolu » 14 Aug 2013, 00:21

I mostly agree with Poutrel's ideas - the whole concept must somehow be made more attractive for players; especially for those who don't like the current system at all.
I also asked multiple times why we can't watch the downloaded replays in the Mediatracker, like it was possible in TMUF - unfortunately I didn't get an answer :/

However, I am the opinion the timer in general should be kept to reward the more consistent players instead of lucky people who try to nail one lucky shot after hours of trying.

7Alvin
Posts: 91
Joined: 19 Sep 2011, 18:43

Re: Some reflections about the solo mode

Post by 7Alvin » 14 Aug 2013, 00:54

Getting lucky run after hours of hunting is just deserved since he played enough to get it. It's even worse to get the lucky run exactly in official mode, it doesn't change anything for me about consistency, for this we have rounds, but it's TA.

edk
Posts: 191
Joined: 24 Jan 2013, 05:26
Location: California
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Re: Some reflections about the solo mode

Post by edk » 14 Aug 2013, 02:02

7Alvin wrote:Getting lucky run after hours of hunting is just deserved since he played enough to get it. It's even worse to get the lucky run exactly in official mode, it doesn't change anything for me about consistency, for this we have rounds, but it's TA.
So what you're saying is that you want official tries to represent our single best runs? I think the idea of luck is that a less skilled player can just play a single track for 40 hours, get one lucky run he cannot duplicate, and then upload it. Now, the timer may not affect you personally, for myself I find I can duplicate my official tries as well, but for the most part it does punish the person that simply spams a track for a lucky time. Consistency is a marker of skill and it's nice when it's rewarded, which the current system unquestionably does. It's not just TA, it's an official TA.

What is important to understand is that no system is going to make everyone happy. It's unreasonable to assume one opinion represents the entire community, or that there is only one single way to go about things. Personally, I like the 5 minute timer the best. I don't want to see it changed. I can understand, however, that others don't like it and some form of moderate change won't affect much except to encourage more players to participate. To go to the extreme opposite and letting anyone upload whatever time they get I think is silly. It removes the esteem of getting an official try.

In my honest opinion, I feel there is much crying among players that desire to be better but don't want to put in the playtime to do so. The timer is the reality check that they are not as good as they think they are. Instead of playing more, or taking a long term approach to the game, they think a system change will more greatly benefit them. However, I don't think any system change will make them happy in the long run because it's their mentality that holds them back. They will always find excuses or ways to blame anyone but themself for not doing better. I am competetive in nature and a large element of that is not worrying about what system is in place. Rather accepting the system for how it is and doing my best within it. This is also why I'm not opposed to change, but change tends to be most reasonable when done in moderation.

7Alvin
Posts: 91
Joined: 19 Sep 2011, 18:43

Re: Some reflections about the solo mode

Post by 7Alvin » 14 Aug 2013, 02:43

It's better to have luck after 40 hours than having the same thing exactly in official. I even feel bad when someone has a better than me without beating me in official, he really deserves it. I don't see why officials runs worth better than everything else, maybe a bit more of mental but in general people drives on the same level and it's just a question of luck of the good timing.

I know that there's no good system for everyone but for the big majority they agree with me and really have no more motivation to play cause of that. I really want a competitive solo campaign and not everyone avoiding it because of that. This system isn't my biggest problem I knew it since almost two years and I do with and with my best perseverence, but the best time always deserves more for me since it crossed the line earlier even if there is lucky part etc.

I know a lot of very talented and consistent players with some good official times but they complain because they haven't their best times on the leaderboard, I think it's the most important thing, it's not about raging to don't have good times in official or not enough freetime or patience.

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kripkee
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Re: Some reflections about the solo mode

Post by kripkee » 14 Aug 2013, 09:10

well,... well...
Image
:gotcha:

well...^^

Other players would give up after few "rounds", but if you have an ego, you will get it. I don't 'hunt' the maniaplanet solomode really, it's more a minimized programm meanwhile the other things which I do on my pc. I'm not the fan of the current solomode system in Maniaplanet - the TMUF was not really better, only if you coppers, yay.

Konte worked a lot for the manialink solomode to show you a system, which could be much better (in my opinion) to 'hunt' nadeo maps and a way to motivate players to drive more the C-D-E Maps. I don't say this is the best system, but much better as the current. Even you get more points for harder maps, as for easy maps (a03/a08). But [...]^^

The point: it is hardcore annoying to 'wait' all 5 minutes for an 'official try' if you know, you can beat the current official time which you set as your 'goal' on a map and than failing, because of small bugs like the egde stone, a jump, a loop, a wallride, dirt (...)*. Trackmania is for hunter more a less a 'perfection' game to get the best time, but you lose the hunting feeling complete with waiting with the current solomode.

If I remember in the past, where a small group begin with complain about the system, there was a bigger group of players with "it's nice, cool idea" and all this blabla^^. But this bigger 'group' is not really playing solomode. The bigger group do other things like building or something else - if they are active in maniaplanet, but they don't play solomode!
The timer seems to be indeed the most fair way. Planets would be even more frustrating for those who don't have much.
The timer is joke. Planets would be the most fair way, but not like TMUF it does. You get at the beginning for each bought title 5000 planets. Now you have for each Trackmania title a campaign with 65 Solomaps. If there would be 'upload your personal besttime' button and 'nadeo' wants 10 planets for each upload, you would use your planets with a total of 650 planets. If your time will be beaten, you have to improve your time and have to pay 10 planets again. Or you use a tactical way of waiting with upload and you upload it later to be sure, that nobody beat your personal time.

Well.. Maniaplanet has a lot of potencial, but it well be waste for things like this..^^
Nadeo is talking allways about 'inflations'. These 'inflation' is not real and this a the next joke too. 'Rich' players have to pay tons of taxes for nothing (...)*. But this not the topic to complain about it^^.

*(...) I could continue with this, but it is not important

Edit: Planets won't be the most fair way.. if every run would be a offical run, this would be the most fair way. :roll:

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