A couple questions about the 3 separate "expansions" for TM2

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TheM
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Re: A couple questions about the 3 separate "expansions" for

Post by TheM » 20 Sep 2013, 10:54

tcq wrote:Even if people don't like it, my solution would still be to shut down the TMNF and ESWC master server and then you see how many people are willing to buy the new game or not. I bet a lot of people will.
...
If you are able to only get half of the TMN players to buy TM2S, this would still triple the amount of players playing the game online.
This has been my opinion for quite a while. Just force everyone to or buy TM2S or leave, I guess quite some people will buy TM2S. Or at some way discourage people to use TMNF (I still don't understand why the ESWC masterserver is up nowadays).
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Re: A couple questions about the 3 separate "expansions" for

Post by Ozon » 20 Sep 2013, 11:13

While many TMNF'ers purchased TMUF they still played Stadium; because they wanted to have more features.
So what is bad about the marketing then? Get Stadium and be happy. Get All envi's if you love playing the united style and be happy too. Wait for the multi envi servers and be even happier. Get future updates and title packs for free and be never unhappy again.

Offtopic, but I would really love to have all the bugfixes first and then maybe have something new. Bugs may ruin the game experience sometimes. Also, minor improvements to creative tools (which are already great) could be cool too! Custom Objects with locators is still a dream, Item pickups and action maker support for Trackmania doesn't seem so far away and Multi-Environment Titlepacks (like you drive a map and directly get out of the car with the Shootman) are more inspiring than ever before.
Also, a possibility to create modes, where you can set a free spawn, instead of starting from a start block!

For now, I would give Nadeo a :1010
Keep up the work! Stay motivated!
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Re: A couple questions about the 3 separate "expansions" for

Post by Filipe1020 » 20 Sep 2013, 12:50

Cerovan wrote:
Filipe1020 wrote:Valley could be a major free update on Canyon and call the game Trackmania 2
Do you ask Electronic Arts to have the next Need for Speed for free if you have paid the previous one ? :mrgreen:

That's the same thing here ;)
No, it's just madness to think that every single environment will cost 20 dollars, yet they work the same and have the same functions

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Re: A couple questions about the 3 separate "expansions" for

Post by tcq » 20 Sep 2013, 13:04

Filipe1020 wrote:
Cerovan wrote:
Filipe1020 wrote:Valley could be a major free update on Canyon and call the game Trackmania 2
Do you ask Electronic Arts to have the next Need for Speed for free if you have paid the previous one ? :mrgreen:

That's the same thing here ;)
No, it's just madness to think that every single environment will cost 20 dollars, yet they work the same and have the same functions
NfS:U (Relase price ~45€) and NfS:U2 (Relase price ~45€)
You could drive cars, change cars, tune cars. You see the similarity?

TM2 Canyon (Relase price ~20€) and TM2 Valley (Relase price ~20€)
You can drive one car, you can build maps which provides more long term fun than NfS.

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kripkee
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Re: A couple questions about the 3 separate "expansions" for

Post by kripkee » 20 Sep 2013, 14:25

tcq wrote:NfS:U (Relase price ~45€) and NfS:U2 (Relase price ~45€)
You could drive cars, change cars, tune cars. You see the similarity?
But NfS:U2 has an open world and very nice music :(

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Re: A couple questions about the 3 separate "expansions" for

Post by Ozon » 20 Sep 2013, 14:58

I just suggest we deal with it that

-Trackmania is no NFS
-Shootmania is no quake
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Re: A couple questions about the 3 separate "expansions" for

Post by Omnixor » 20 Sep 2013, 16:43

and Nadeo is no EA or id, which isn't necessarily good.
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Re: A couple questions about the 3 separate "expansions" for

Post by eyebo » 20 Sep 2013, 18:46

Cerovan wrote:
Filipe1020 wrote:Valley could be a major free update on Canyon and call the game Trackmania 2
Do you ask Electronic Arts to have the next Need for Speed for free if you have paid the previous one ? :mrgreen:

That's the same thing here ;)
Filipe is just grabbing at straws, trying to help the game [TM] survive.

Of course no one should expect to get new things for free just because they bought old things. I didn't expect Canyon for free just because I bought TMUF 4 years earlier. But the problem with TM2 is more nuanced than that.

The problem is, Nadeo is a victim of it's own successes. They bundled environments in the past, putting 3 environments per title in the first two games, and 7 environments in TMU. Many people got used to that. To now have one environment per title feels like a ripoff to many people, even people who are extremely into the series. What's worse, is that the games are separate within ManiaPlanet, even though they're somehow together within ManiaPlanet. It feels like a huge step backwards from a gameplay standpoint.

It's sad when you play a multi-environment event like the Planets Millions Cup (one of the largest events in TrackMania) and some people have to skip Valley or Stadium because they either can't afford it yet or because they're generally not interested in that environment. If it was like United, they might play that environment anyway, just because they already had it. And over time, they may find they like it, or even that it became their favorite. This is what happened to me with Coast.

When everyone had everything, it kept people playing longer, because there was always something new to explore. Giving only one environment per title is limiting and may actually be one of the major factors that is bringing down player numbers drastically over time. When people stop playing, they also stop telling their friends about the game, and it kills one of the only forms of marketing Nadeo seems to be relying on. It's a downward spiral. Maybe this can be fixed in the long term. TMO, TMS, and TMN became TMU eventually. Perhaps Canyon, Stadium, Valley, and [4th TM2 enviro] can finally become TM2U soon.

But that begs the question: If TM2U became a reality, what about the people who are missing environments? Easy. Give them the missing ones free. Send out an email letting people know they now have the missing environments unlocked in ManiaPlanet and can check them out. People aren't buying Canyon, Stadium, or Valley that much anyway, right? Don't spin it. Look at your numbers.

The good publicity will far outweigh any possible loss in revenue. And Nadeo needs some good publicity right now.

There's also the issue of Stadium. Nations Forever players will never move to Stadium en masse until it's free. It's not even about the money. It's about tradition, and it's about fear. Tradition because it's always been free. It's always been available to anyone, whether it's some kid whose parents don't allow him to buy games online, or a guy in a country somewhere that online payment options are not available. It brought in people from all walks of life, because it was totally open. There's also a fear surrounding the new game. Fear that no one else will move to it, so no one else moves. Everyone is paralyzed by this fear, and so they stay in Nations Forever. Eliminating the price from TM2 Stadium could be a huge move to remove much of that fear, even if some of it may still remain because of factors like minimum system requirements.

I'm approaching this from a player's perspective and what I'd like to see happen to help the game survive and flourish. I don't know how much is viable from an economic standpoint. That's your job. What I do know is that sometimes you have to take risks to get huge rewards.

I'm a huge fan of TM. I've played it for a long time. But I'm also not an idiot. I see activity gradually going down and I'd be remiss if I didn't point it out. So many cool things have been added with ManiaPlanet, and there's so much potential, but a run of bad publicity and bad marketing is ruining this game I love so dearly.

Sure, there's people still playing, but it's a niche group of dedicated players. It's not growing by leaps and bounds like it should.

In my opinion, drastic measures will need to be taken in the next year if you expect TM to ever regain the popularity it had in the past, let alone survive.
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Hubby
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Re: A couple questions about the 3 separate "expansions" for

Post by Hubby » 20 Sep 2013, 19:00

I just had to login to reply to eyebo's post :D

What a well written and comprehensive post .. one of the best I've read here !

:clap: :clap:

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Re: A couple questions about the 3 separate "expansions" for

Post by Omnixor » 20 Sep 2013, 19:15

eyebo. for. president.
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