Trackmania² Lagoon Special Beta for Trackmania Turbo PC owners

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Re: Trackmania² Lagoon Special Beta for Trackmania Turbo PC owners

Post by ppgbarc » 25 May 2017, 13:41

test1234s wrote:
25 May 2017, 09:09
You can't say that especially after releasing such a bad game that is TMT.
TMT is one of the best games in the series.
eyebo wrote:
25 May 2017, 10:02
Isn't it better to give the devs a :thumbsup: for their hard work and move on with life?
No, because it's not that simple. Nadeo aren't your friends, they're a business. They stated something very clearly, and then decided to throw it away in favor of vague statements about... honestly, I'm not even sure what Hylis is trying to say in that one earlier post. Businesses should not get a pat on the back for such a misleading action.

It's really frustrating to see both Nadeo and fans completely support this, and for reasons that make no sense. They accuse others of judging Nadeo unfairly, they keep trying to say that what Nadeo very clearly said wasn't actually what they said, they keep accusing people of "demanding" things, and they keep saying this has anything to do with the pricetag. The only thing I'm demanding is what was actually stated that I was going to get. It was expressly stated that Nadeo intended to do this deal, and at no point was it stated that there were any obstacles against this until the game finally released. Not only did they not do the deal, but they replaced it with a version that is almost impossible to actually participate in.

Nadeo knew this was going to be a problem, as Hylis has very clearly stated, but they said absolutely nothing until it was too late. I don't understand why they cannot be held accountable for this. I don't understand why this has to be about everything except the actual problem: Nadeo fundamentally lied to people, and are trying to cover it up with every excuse in the book.

rizu completely gets it. Thank you for actually being reasonable about this.

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Re: Trackmania² Lagoon Special Beta for Trackmania Turbo PC owners

Post by loozerr » 25 May 2017, 14:01

Thing is, I don't expect malice from Nadeo's part, knowing that before Ubisoft ownership they were an exceptionally fair company; TrackMania's expansions were free, as was the TMUF update.

As such I suspect that there's not much else Hylis could do, outside this perk on Nadeo's own platform. :roll:

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Re: Trackmania² Lagoon Special Beta for Trackmania Turbo PC owners

Post by Aldherrian » 25 May 2017, 14:11

Well, I'll add a bit on an intermediate point of view in there.

I bought and played a lot TMT at its launch but haven't really played a TM game lately. Early may, I overheard that Lagoon was coming to the TM² hub and somehow it would be handed over to TMT PC users. I have to admit that I did not check any further and just though "Oh that's a really nice thing to do, I guess I'll be watching for the release of TM²Lagoon and play it then".
So on the 23rd I saw the news about the Lagoon launch so I came around and also learnt about the beta and the process to actually get the game. I spent some time trying to get how that was supposed to work and if I still could get it (I own TMT on Uplay and as it has been reported, multiple Steam owners could still redeem Lagoon while it was not possible anymore on Uplay).

As a matter of fact, had I not seen that, I would have probably pay for TM² Lagoon. But not only did I learn that a special beta was run here, I saw that even if the deadline was over, Steam owners could bypass it while Uplay owners were screwed.
From expecting nothing, I ended up disappointed. It's a shame but it's like that. Heh, to be honest, I would have appreciate any kind of appreciation token. Like having Lagoon at 15€ instead of 20€, the difference is not really significant but "Hey, that's something, that's cool".

I'll eventually buy TM² Lagoon, because I like the game (not the oldest folk in there, only been playing since Sunrise but heh) and Lagoon is one of my favorite trackmania environments ever. But not today and not full price.

That being said, I'll thanks Hylis for trying to explain himself and what Nadeo did the best he can even on a holiday like this one and for the work they did on the game. :thumbsup:

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Re: Trackmania² Lagoon Special Beta for Trackmania Turbo PC owners

Post by eyebo » 25 May 2017, 14:23

eyebo wrote:
25 May 2017, 10:02
Isn't it better to give the devs a :thumbsup: for their hard work and move on with life?
ppgbarc wrote:
25 May 2017, 13:41
No, because it's not that simple. Nadeo aren't your friends, they're a business.
It can be that simple if you want it to be. And they can be both. The folks I've met at Nadeo are extremely helpful and gracious with their time helping players. They're a good bunch of folks trying to do the best they can.
My tracks on: Mania Exchange (TM2) | TrackMania Exchange (TMUF)

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Re: Trackmania² Lagoon Special Beta for Trackmania Turbo PC owners

Post by Demented » 25 May 2017, 16:22

eyebo wrote:
25 May 2017, 10:02
Good grief people!

If you enjoy the creative tools in ManiaPlanet, Lagoon is a worthy addition to your collection. It's super cheap, and you'll have fun on it for years.

It doesn't really matter what the devs said or didn't say. Their work speaks for itself. They've made a quality game and poured their blood, sweat, tears, and long weekends into this game for you, so you can have a platform to display your creativity and have fun with your friends. And they're not even done. The platform is just going to get better from here.

Isn't it better to give the devs a :thumbsup: for their hard work and move on with life? All this nagging reflects very badly on the community and I'm really saddened to see it.
tcq wrote:
25 May 2017, 11:39
Come on people, are you really serious? There is a game which costs you 20 Euro (less than whatever you spend on drinking on one party) and will keep you entertained for the next 5 years (incredible editors for long time motivation). Furthermore, it was NEVER said to give lagoon to people that bought TMT (see the posts in this thread). It was said that it may be a possibility, but it was never said it will be this way. It's your fault for projecting your wishes on the statement given by Hylis (18.06.2016).
Why does Nadeo doesn't give informations about future ideas or developments on their games? Because of reactions like this. Nowadays, everyone seems to try to inflict a shitstorm if something doesn't work the way they want it. Get a grip people and grow up.
Be happy that you get a new version (aka Lagoon) which doesn't automatically outdate the other game versions (such as canyon, stadium, valley). EA would just bring another battlefield and good is it. Here a developer cares about the people (free forever update, free startrack). Of course, the communication could be better (maybe more testing before releasing an update, better communication via email to notify players about what is going on, making sure people understand that the update to 4.0 was more like a test for a final release, that maps needs to be ported, that server controller stop working and and and) and would probably defuse most of the situations happening here in the forum. But to be realistic, even if this update was not communicated proper, you people go crazy overboard. If it isn't working, why not just stop playing for a month and then come back for a working ecosystem. I mean, it's only a game and the weather is nice. Go outside, do sports and then you will be refreshed. Watch some movies and when you finally come back, everything is new and you can enjoy the game to it's fullest (including lagoon for a lousy 20 euros and a new mesh modeller!!!!).
Hylis wrote:
25 May 2017, 11:55
Tx for the real support here.
Eyebo & Tcq;
I'm glad you guys posted those messages before I had a chance to respond because I'm not sure I would have worded things as eloquently as you have.
Reading the way some people have been reacting on this matter frustrates me. I read the same stuff everyone else did back when TMT came out and I never assumed Lagoon would definitely be offered for free to anyone. It was always my impression from Hylis' and his statements that he "hoped" that it could be offered for free to those who supported Turbo, but it was NEVER promised. I can understand why people may have thought it was implied but that's because it WAS his WISH to be able to "gift" Lagoon to people who bought TMT. I'm sure he still wishes it could have been done that way, but it couldn't, so stop crying about it. Either buy Lagoon or don't, but stop accusing Nadeo & Hylis of being liars. From what I've seen he and at least the majority of Nadeo are exactly the opposite of that. They are good people with good intentions and if you think they were intentionally misleading, malicious or "just out to get your money" well then you've misunderstood and that's on you.
20 bucks for what would be a good stand alone game is a great deal and when you consider that it combines with previous environment it's even better. The way these are stand alone games but can be used as an "add on" is kind of cool really. Most games have sequels that cost another 40- 50 bucks or more and can't be combined with previous releases. I find what they've done at Nadeo innovative and impressive.
I'm sure I've pissed a few people off by stating things the way I did, but I needed to get it off my chest.
My apologies to Hylis if I came across too harsh. I know his wish is for this to be a fun and happy place with good spirit, and believe me I want that too, but some of the feedback was starting to really annoy me.
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Re: Trackmania² Lagoon Special Beta for Trackmania Turbo PC owners

Post by Hylis » 25 May 2017, 19:05

I hope we would have avoided this, it was probably inevitable. Would we have made the offer after, we would have had issue with uninformed people as well. It was not possible for us to reach TMT owners and lot of other things made this happen too late. I also was not clear enough before that there were a risk that we could not do it and it was a mistake.

We have made huge efforts on improving environments in the last free update, as well as the software. Some players support us and I dislike other saying they are mindless fans somehow. Last month, one came at the studio and took me in his arms for the cool years spent. It's just a world were you chose to try to be positive. And we try and we sometimes do mistakes. I bet on other people to understand and I fail. I knew some would not understand and this why I am here trying to explain as well.

I already had to explain with United, I expect to still have to explain ourselves in the future. I will lock the topic because I want to relax about this, I hope you all will. And if you still have questions, send a private message to Cerovan.


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