Trackmania 2 Lagoon Gameplay

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ranig
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Trackmania 2 Lagoon Gameplay

Post by ranig » 27 May 2017, 01:19

Hi there !

First of all, I would like to say that I really like the Lagoon environment itself. The visuals are really great, there has been a lot of effort put into this and it's really nice ;)

That said, I'm a little bit disappointed by the gameplay. I'm playing with a keyboard, and the fact that a) just tapping an arrow makes the car turn by over 9000 degrees (OK, an exageration, but you get me) and that b) there are a lot of small obstacles on the road (trees, rocks, etc) makes it VERY difficult and very frustrating to drive. Especially on sand. Like C15, I know the path to take in order to beat the gold medal, it's just that most of my runs end somewhere in the track because the car overreacts to all my commands. Super frustrating, I would love to enjoy the game, but no. I end my runs pissed off more than anything else (and I know that I shouldn't post posts on message boards while being pissed off, but again, I would really love to enjoy the game)

Devs, did you ever play with keyboard during development ? Because it really feels like you didn't.

In my opinion, TM is about accuracy and precision. And I know that I'm not the most accurate/precise driver out there and that's fine, that's my own problem. However, when it is the game physics that limits me, then it becomes really annoying and doesn't make me want to play further.

Remember, with keyboard, the only way we can turn "less" is by tapping more or less frequently on the arrows. If tapping the arrow once puts us in the wall, then it feels like we are being punished for a mistake we didn't do. I have no problem being punished for my driving mistakes. But not up to that point.

tl;dr It would be really great if the controls were altered with keyboard also in mind ;)

iamajellydonut
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Re: Trackmania 2 Lagoon Gameplay

Post by iamajellydonut » 27 May 2017, 01:45

I would agree that there are too many little obstacles on the road, especially when driving on sand and grass. I'd say they should sacrifice aesthetics in favor of practicality in this situation for the sake of our sanity, lol.

Many of the classic TrackMania environments, especially Bay and Snow, had cars with ridiculously small turning radii like Lagoon does. Since I started with TrackMania 2 instead of Classic TrackMania, I hated the Lagoon environment when I initially played it in Turbo. With tight fullspeed turning and loose drift turning, it's totally backwards in terms of handling when compared to the other TM2 environments. But after playing about 100 hours in TrackMania United, I found that acquiring a taste for Lagoon was much easier.

Unless you already play classic TrackMania? Is the problem inputs sticking, or some other technical issues along those lines not directly related to the vehicle's handling? It's been forever since I've played TrackMania with arrowkeys as my primary control scheme, and I've only played Lagoon with arrowkeys a handful of times, so I suppose you should probably take what I'm saying with a grain of salt.

Unrelated to TrackMania history, control schemes, and technical issues, I've found that being good at Lagoon requires a lot of self trust. Learning the game mechanics and physics unique to the environment are still very important, but it doesn't mean a whole lot if you don't trust yourself. Lagoon is kinda backwards compared to the other TM2 environments in this respect as well, seeing as Canyon, Stadium, and Valley require a very meticulous approach if you want to be good. With Lagoon, you kinda have to ditch conscious meticulousness with subconscious recklessness in favor or conscious recklessness with subconscious meticulousness. Hard to figure out, but you feel like a total badass once you get it right. But that's just my experience.

Akbalder
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Re: Trackmania 2 Lagoon Gameplay

Post by Akbalder » 27 May 2017, 07:08

It is possible to play with the keyboard (I did author on almost all auhtor times on solo tracks with the keyboard).
But it is often frustrating: It isn't possible to correct a trajectory because o some surfaces, 1 press of a direction key would send the car totaly in this direction. So I stopped to try to correct the trajectories and I directly restart the map when the car isn't correctly aligned. :oops:

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Demented
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Re: Trackmania 2 Lagoon Gameplay

Post by Demented » 27 May 2017, 14:39

First of all, I LOVE the look and creation possibilities of Lagoon. I think the environment is awesome!

However, I play with an analog controller and I too find the Lagoon car WAY too responsive. In the first half of the analog sticks travel the car feels like it isn't turning much at all, but then from about the halfway point on it suddenly jerks the car into a turn that feels way too tight. Changing analog sensitivity or deadzone doesn't help the issue either.
My Personal Opinion; I'm sure it is something I could get use to over time, but I would prefer the challenge to be in navigating a track and not in controlling the vehicle.
I know it's not a sim game but with the look and feel of the environment the car feels way too "arcade" and doesn't feel like a good fit to me.
I won't give up on the environment though. If this is just the way it is going to be I'll still build tracks but might use one of the other vehicles instead. I'd hate to do that but at the same time I want to have fun with it, not get frustrated.
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MetalDad
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Re: Trackmania 2 Lagoon Gameplay

Post by MetalDad » 28 May 2017, 09:13

Personally I think it's just a mindset. The other night I saw my son scoring author medal after author medal in the very first runs of every track, while I was struggling to even get through the first corner of A01... I have my drivers licence, my son doesn't yet (only 16) and for me it just doesn't feel natural to turn left or right instantly at a speed of 300+ kmh. He hasn't had this real life driving experience yet, so for him it's just another race game. Besides this I truly think there's a big difference between playing Lagoon with a steering wheel or playing it on keyboard like I do. I'm tapping my ass off just trying to make a sort of decent turn, while with a steering wheel you can just steer a little. At least I think it works that way, because I don't have any experience with a steering wheel in TM. So pls do correct me if I'm wrong. In the end I think it's all about your driving capabilities. I'm doing quite alright in Canyon and Valley, but will never break any record in Stadium or Lagoon. It's all just too fast and too intense for me. The car response and the (for me) unnatural turning/behaviour of the car. I just can't keep up with it. But hey, that's ok. I can live with that. And yes, it sure is a little frustrating not being able to master it, but that's just how it is and I can take it or leave it. Nobody forced me to buy and play this game.

ranig
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Re: Trackmania 2 Lagoon Gameplay

Post by ranig » 28 May 2017, 15:47

My Personal Opinion; I'm sure it is something I could get use to over time, but I would prefer the challenge to be in navigating a track and not in controlling the vehicle.
+1

It really is a nightmare and fortunately I am not forced to play the game, so I will probably stop.

The difficulty compared with the other TM environments is that I find it impossible to be consistent in Lagoon. In the other environment, OK, I crash a couple of times on each map the first time I run it, but then I know where/why I fail and then I can get a clean run. With Lagoo, it's impossible, each run is pretty random due to the handling and the fact that there is ton of sh*t along the road (notably a ton of microjumps with very random results). The fact that you cannot essentially correct your trajectory is a pity...

Question for those who play Lagoon with a controller, do you accelerate gradually as well or do you go full throttle?

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Demented
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Re: Trackmania 2 Lagoon Gameplay

Post by Demented » 28 May 2017, 16:42

ranig wrote:
28 May 2017, 15:47
Question for those who play Lagoon with a controller, do you accelerate gradually as well or do you go full throttle?
I use an analog controller but I don't use the analog throttle and braking controls so when I accelerate from a stop the car kind of jumps forward like a frog with a firecracker under it's ass. :o Don't worry though, it doesn't hurt the frog.
Hmm, I think a green pastel frog paint scheme might look kinda cool on the lagoon car.
~
Ok, back to a more serious note. I hear a lot of people that seem not too happy with the vehicle's handling and my fear is that many will not take the time to get use to it and simply set it aside or move on. This is not good for first time players who might download a demo, try it, get frustrated and never come back. The vehicle physics are fun, it's just the control that I fear will turn many away. I love TM and Lagoon looks beautiful, therefore I will likely persist in trying to get the hang of it. However, I'm more concerned about losing future players than myself getting use to it. If it's too hard to play, people simply won't.
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isamu
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Re: Trackmania 2 Lagoon Gameplay

Post by isamu » 28 May 2017, 18:04

Maybe use a wheel?

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Demented
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Re: Trackmania 2 Lagoon Gameplay

Post by Demented » 29 May 2017, 14:52

Using a wheel is a nice thought but most players can't afford to buy one (& I personally don't like them). As I mentioned before I'm not so much concerned about myself being frustrated with the difficulty controlling the car but other more casual or new players.
If 1 million new players download a demo and half of them toss it aside because they don't like the handling that's a lot of potential new players that go away and don't come back. If a million new players buy Lagoon and half are angry that they can't play it they will likely never buy another environment. First impression are often the longest lasting and I fear that keeping things as they are will come at a heavy cost of new players. This issue isn't about me or my personal opinions, but I've been reading since the release of TMT that Logoon is too hard to control, and each unhappy player has an effect on the future of ManiaPlanet.
I've been playing video games for over 40 years and Trackmania is by far my favorite. I just want to see it survive and thrive. :pil
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Filipe1020
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Re: Trackmania 2 Lagoon Gameplay

Post by Filipe1020 » 29 May 2017, 18:00

Well, I play with the xbox360 controller, at first when I downloaded the game it was impossible to play, but then I reduced the deadzone to 1,713 or something I don't remember, and it made it a lot more controlable on corners, I'd suggest fine tuning the settings until you find the best option.

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