SM: Storm - planned release ... And what TM: Valley ?

[TMarc]

How often shall one repeat "we don't know" or "when it's done"?
You can also try to read all posts and interviews from Hylis to get a picture of an answer.

If you know what software development means, then you can easily imagine that it is not this easy to answer in the context of community oriented games like those from Nadeo, which are evolving by the time, in contrast to games which get released complete and where nothing can be influenced.

[Demented]

Maybe... Makc86,
if you plan to wait for ten years, twenty or thirty,
then you will be pleasently surprised when it comes before that ☺.

[Cerovan]

We don't know yet

There is no need to ask the question each week (a way to say it), we'll tell when we'll know it

[Filipe1020]

You guys really should give them some slack, some of you people complains about everything, and we know that nobody is perfect, neither NADEO is, but they are trying to make some good games for us and in my opinion they are doing a great job

Try to wear they shoes for a second, how would you feel about trying to make a sequel for a great racing game with some people complaining about every aspect

[tcq]

Just don't feel like to crawl the forum to find quotes for all answers, therefore I only focus on this part of your post.

I do not believe him. He said that the TrackMania 2 (Valley+Canyon+???) will be released before the end of 2010, and in the end he lied. Plus cut the game into three parts.

This is because the TrackMania has no analogues, and wait for the full version of 7-10 years - it's a complete nightmare. Previously, the Nadeo have promised that by 2010, all will be done ... But in the end we got one more episodic utopia.

Oh come one ... You aren't serious, are you? Where did Hylis said that TM2 will be 3 environments form the start? Show me a quote and I believe you. But as far as I remember it, firstly they showed a video of valley. Which got later exchanged with canyon as the first environment. And when the MP forum started, there was directly told that the environments will be come time after time (June 2010). About the release plan, there were suggestions about how the distribution could be, but there were no strict dates given. It's not the fault of Nadeo if you interpret such dates as release dates.
Furthermore, if you would have had the slightest clue about software development, then you would know that it is impossible to give definite release schedules (except you are a very big team of developers). If you try to press everything together for one date, you will get a Gothic III.
To summarise it: Plans can change and you need to cope with this changes if you like it or not. If the latter is the case, then you can protest against it, but do it in a sense-full (e.g. give quotes for your accusation of Nadeo lies to the community instead of simply shouting out nonsense like a low class news paper ) and respective way to the community and the developers.

[TMarc]

You can also try to read all posts and interviews from Hylis to get a picture of an answer.

I do not believe him. He said that the TrackMania 2 (Valley+Canyon+???) will be released before the end of 2010, and in the end he lied. Plus cut the game into three parts.

I'm following TrackMania since 2003, and I also read quite a lot of his announcements. If I remember right, he said from the beginning, when he published first ideas of ManiaPlanet, that TM² would be released in separate parts, along with the other two game types ShootMania and QuestMania. Releases of environments and games with several months distance to each other, max. 3 releases in a year.
It was never communicated that TM² would come directly with 3 environments or more at once.
I think he said this in the original French Forum, and in some interviews.
No promise was given, only an idea, an expectation.
And that Canyon came out later than expected, what shall's? Is it really this dramatic? For a game? You're taking this much to serious, although there is certainly some big business behind.
And Duke was also released finally

If you know what software development means, then you can easily imagine that it is not this easy to answer in the context of community oriented games like those from Nadeo, which are evolving by the time, in contrast to games which get released complete and where nothing can be influenced.

If you understand what it means to the development of software, you should also know that the developer should be able to calculate the time and effort, and not try to implement everything at once, and eventually get something more terrible than Duke Nukem Forever.

Why are you rotating my words in such a ways? Are you a SW developer?
In large projects, nothing is really predictable, even more, the whole world is getting crazy about "agile" development, where dates are being shifted all the time, because exactly customers want to much and to many things at once without really having an idea of what it means in the code behind.
"I need a new button there... it should do this and this" sounds simple and easy, but the developers have to consider much more, like how to implement, possible side effects etc.. Then comes the whish "but this button should be colored depending on the mood and it must work tomorrow" etc.
How do you really want to plan this, hmm?

Nadeo is working partially open to the community, they listen, they add or change things, what shall they do more?
They have first their own vision, this is also how TrackMania started, and they have to adapt it successively based on feedback of the majority of users.
Honestly I prefer such a game where I can see some development and where I can participate a little bit.

You could also wait undefined time not knowing anyhting or not much, how this happened with e.g. Portal / Portal 2.
Portal started as experiment, no one really noticed it, and the players who found it were amazed and spread word. suddenly there was the announcement of Portal2, with interesting trailers, and then many more got attracted.

You seem not to give any change to ShootMania even before it got released.
But you also have to accept that it is a totally different kind of FPS, more arcade like, in the mood of the TrackMania fun.
Again please don't take it too seriously, and try to have fun with it

[TMarc]

hehe ok, but why do you absolutely want to see it fail?
So Nadeo concentrates again more on TrackMania?
Please don't forget they have other titles as well, e.g. Virtual Skipper

[TMarc]

you know where the word optimism comes from? the hope for the best.
All who can wait show passive optimism

So lets wait for the releases of ShootMania and TM²-Valley this year, and then let's see how successful both games get, and what Ubisoft and Nadeo decide in consequence, whatever it will be

[Demented]

I'm into driving games mostly. Not into shooters or Quests really but I am looking forward to map making with SM and QM. Mostly looking forward to Valley and QM. By then a lot of bugs will be worked out of the system I think.
Are you looking forward to anything Makc86? Or are you just convinced that everything that comes will not live up to your expectations?

[TMarc]

Do you think that the release of the ShootMania will be different in a much better way than the beta?)

What I think, what I beleive, and what I hope... are three different things
I think there is a chance, I beleive they do their best, and I hope they do as many fixes as possible until then.
When the release will really be... this is open of course.

TM²-Valley this year

This year?
Do not believe it!

This I do beleive. Valley is most probably ready since months and only has to be adapted to ManiaPlanet 2.0,
and after the release of SM, it might not take very long.
I even doubt there will be a open beta for Valley, they might only have a short closed test phase, and release it then.

As shown in another thread, there is a game convention in Paris begin of November, which would be the ideal place to reveal Valley