Trilaser - Needs some serious work

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Alexey85
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Joined: 14 Jul 2012, 10:54

Re: Trilaser - Needs some serious work

Post by Alexey85 » 16 Aug 2013, 13:12

platernitycs wrote:No it just reduce the hitbox if you think about it.
Indeed. I didn't look at this in such way. But tri-laser decreases the hitbox by a constant size regardless of the distance. So with increasing the ditance the resulting hitbox is reduced faster than for one dot laser, making tri-laser more difficult at any distance, the more the distance - the more tri-laser harder than one dot laser. Making the laser one dot will make it stronger at mid and longer distances, so more camping near the pole will ensue.

GabrielM
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Joined: 13 Jan 2012, 16:53

Re: Trilaser - Needs some serious work

Post by GabrielM » 18 Aug 2013, 04:12

Platernity you said it yourself, the Laser has an advantage on longer range, and rocket on shorter range. So i guess when you're playing elite, you most of the time try to keep this distance with defenders, in order to keep this advantage right ? But also on some situations of course, getting closer with a risk/reward situation.

So this "long-range" advantage does exist, it's just not that far, shorter.. It's "medium-long" range, but it exist. When you think about it, what the tri-laser makes, it just shorten this distance, and makes the defender you've hit on your screen always at a minimum size, that any spectator without any shootmania background, can see.
Don't underestimate this spectator factor.
For example,if the attacker would have had rockets, and the 3 defenders woud have had lasers, a random unexperimented spectator would see :
- An attacker shooting slow/delayed-hit projectiles, with 1/3 of the hits not shown on the screen.
- The same attacker losing armor 2/3 of the time, without understanding why, without seeing anything on the screen.

It's the same here with 3 dots laser, if people could be able to shoot and hit from that far some tiny pixels, an unexperimented spectator would be like "hmmm.. what..? Is the round over ? why is it over ? did he win ? he did ? b-b-b-but why ? what did he do ? i don't get it.."

I've watched counter strike eswc finals with some friends at the PGW, they were so bored.. and then we watched trackmania and they were really part of it. If you keep on believing in this game and playing it, maybe you'll be part of something that gathers a lot of viewers because anybody can follow the action, and take part in it. It does take a lot of time though.

I would add also that i'm surprise how much passionate you get about this 3-dots thing, because we talked about feelings, and i'm going to be fully honest here, i play a lot of elite, and the 3-dots never prevented me to have fun at any time ! I know the rule, i know i can't hit, so i just get closer, and when it does not hit, i know it's just me. That's not because there's nadeo written on the right, it's my elite-player feeling, and that was also my philosophy playing counter-strike back then :) .

sadzealot
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Joined: 04 Aug 2012, 03:38

Re: Trilaser - Needs some serious work

Post by sadzealot » 18 Aug 2013, 11:22

GabrielM wrote:and i'm going to be fully honest here, i play a lot of elite, and the 3-dots never prevented me to have fun at any time ! I know the rule, i know i can't hit, so i just get closer, and when it does not hit, i know it's just me.
You know about the trilaser, but not everyone does. So maybe it's about time you start explaining [Enough with the swearing] to new players? They don't know about trilaser, they don't know anything about walljumps (relax, B3 being forced soon, nothing needs to be explained there since it's all kindergarten-difficulty on B3 walljumps) they don't know how certain blocks work (faster stamina-reload and ammo-reload on certain blocks etc)

There's nothing that frustrates me more than seeing beginners stay at 100-150 meters trying to snipe defenders. When they do that it's obvious they don't know there's a trilaser ingame but think it's a pixelperfect laser.

So maybe you should add a decent tutorial to your own game? (which I've seen several people requested on the wishlist quite a few times)

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Rots
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Re: Trilaser - Needs some serious work

Post by Rots » 18 Aug 2013, 11:46

sadzealot wrote:So maybe you should add a decent tutorial to your own game? (which I've seen several people requested on the wishlist quite a few times)
Or a "maniaplanet-tips" section on the loadscreens (on server joining). So you can learn little tips. Others games do the same stuff. Wouldn't be hard to implement... Some random function with 20 different tips and an image attached and displayed.

Code: Select all

1- The laser weapon works this way : XXXX you should shot at XXXX distance and aim XXXXX this way
2- Jump close to a wall and use the jump button again to do a walljump
etc
etc
(some polls could be done to ask for more useful tips about the game and about maniaplanet features)

Or also, another idea: Set a button on the main menu called "tutorial" (a new solo campaign) and put 1 or 2 obstacle maps to learn movements, 1 or 2 maps with some bots to learn laser shot, 1 or 2 maps to learn arrow mechanics. etc

(I know i'm offtopic right now, but since people says that trilaser is s*** just because they don't know how it works, I bring ideas to make them (new players) understand the mechanics.)
Image
Image
Image
TrackMania Original brought me here... Here I am since 2006

GabrielM
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Joined: 13 Jan 2012, 16:53

Re: Trilaser - Needs some serious work

Post by GabrielM » 18 Aug 2013, 12:33

I agree it could be a good thing to have it explained to new people, though a solo campain would take to much time to make. But they are some other ways indeed.
The good thing now is that apparently it's only a problem of understanding for newcomers (players).

MuNgLo
Posts: 316
Joined: 12 Jul 2012, 03:37

Re: Trilaser - Needs some serious work

Post by MuNgLo » 18 Aug 2013, 13:55

GabrielM wrote:I agree it could be a good thing to have it explained to new people, though a solo campain would take to much time to make. But they are some other ways indeed.
The good thing now is that apparently it's only a problem of understanding for newcomers (players).
Not really, It's the same for newcomers, noobs and the average casual player. Seen plenty of >1k wins players having no clue about trilaser.
rots wrote:(I know i'm offtopic right now, but since people says that trilaser is s*** just because they don't know how it works, I bring ideas to make them (new players) understand the mechanics.)
I know exactly how it works. I still say it's shit. It tricks new players, it artificially makes the hitbox smaller and on certain special occasions it adds randomness and makes the gameplay visual feedback completely counterintuitive and wrong.

wld
Posts: 1
Joined: 18 Aug 2013, 13:39

Re: Trilaser - Needs some serious work

Post by wld » 18 Aug 2013, 14:04

If I understand well, this is how the tri-laser works: Three dots, three beans! Each dots has to be put on the same player, if one of the dot is not on the player, or on another player, you miss!?
It's stupid, no one will ever be able to know why they miss the shot ... You are just trying too hard nadeo.
In my opinion the game should remain SIMPLE, like it was, and players will make the difference.
What if they removed the AWP quick coped in CS back then ? just because it was too easy to kill someone :lol:

MuNgLo
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Joined: 12 Jul 2012, 03:37

Re: Trilaser - Needs some serious work

Post by MuNgLo » 18 Aug 2013, 14:15

"If I understand well, this is how the tri-laser works: Three dots, three beans! Each dots has to be put on the same player, if one of the dot is not on the player, or on another player, you miss!?"

yes

Kryw
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Location: Pelagic IV

Re: Trilaser - Needs some serious work

Post by Kryw » 18 Aug 2013, 14:46

It's the same here with 3 dots laser, if people could be able to shoot and hit from that far some tiny pixels, an unexperimented spectator would be like "hmmm.. what..? Is the round over ? why is it over ? did he win ? he did ? b-b-b-but why ? what did he do ? i don't get it.."
It's same situation of NFL when you watch your first match you can be a little bored or completly, because you don't understand the rules ect... but I practice this sport since 5 years and this game is just completly insane, now to watch a match it's a big pleasure. It's like a good wine you need to learn his history ect... to appreciate that, SM it's like a orange juice you drink and it's ok no need more drinking to have an opinion, but a old wine it's completly different you can compare it to quake or painkiller of other fast fps.

This quote remember me this video, http://www.nesblog.com/crossed-street-fighter/ at the end he talk about children movie and it's very interesting moment :)

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plopp
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Re: Trilaser - Needs some serious work

Post by plopp » 18 Aug 2013, 14:49

GabrielM wrote:It's the same here with 3 dots laser, if people could be able to shoot and hit from that far some tiny pixels, an unexperimented spectator would be like "hmmm.. what..? Is the round over ? why is it over ? did he win ? he did ? b-b-b-but why ? what did he do ? i don't get it.."
Also that's a problem with the trilaser. A spectator sees a guy standing perfectly still at a longer distance. The attacker shoot this player and misses while the crosshair is perfectly centered at the defender. The spectator thinks "What the hell? How did that miss? This game seems pretty broken".

In other games like Quake (please don't say "go back to quake then") the pixel shots just adds to the excitement. I mean the pixel rails doesn't really happen that often.

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