A couple questions about the 3 separate "expansions" for TM2

[TGYoshi]

I'd totally change the business model to something like, sell all TM games for 30 Eur or so (everything merged(!)), when the next environment releases, increase price to 40 Eur at release (encourages people to buy earlier as well, before the actual release).

Not sure how to deal with the current sets (some only paid 10 Eur for stad, some 50 Eur for all) even though I wouldn't mind just giving everybody every environment.

Also, Stadium being paid to play doesn't seem like what TMNF people prefer (see e.g. eyebo's post for reasons). I completely understand why they won't switch anyway.

[Pedal]

Even if people don't like it, my solution would still be to shut down the TMNF and ESWC master server and then you see how many people are willing to buy the new game or not. I bet a lot of people will.
...
If you are able to only get half of the TMN players to buy TM2S, this would still triple the amount of players playing the game online.

This has been my opinion for quite a while. Just force everyone to or buy TM2S or leave, I guess quite some people will buy TM2S. Or at some way discourage people to use TMNF (I still don't understand why the ESWC masterserver is up nowadays).

I really dissagree to this approach and i honestly Believe that this would cause more harm than good to Nadeo and the TM-Community. Those who still keeps on playing TMF should change to TM2 because they get a better Product and a more fun experience playing the game. So far this obviously is not the case as so many more people are still playing the old TMF than the new. Find out why and adapt would be my advice to Nadeo.

The problem is, Nadeo is a victim of it's own successes. They bundled environments in the past, putting 3 environments per title in the first two games, and 7 environments in TMU. Many people got used to that. To now have one environment per title feels like a ripoff to many people, even people who are extremely into the series. What's worse, is that the games are separate within ManiaPlanet, even though they're somehow together within ManiaPlanet. It feels like a huge step backwards from a gameplay standpoint.

This is a very valid Point even thoug i know a lot of people who only played/is still playing Stadium within TMUF, but purchased the game to get the "full" version supporting Nadeo at the same time.

There's also the issue of Stadium. Nations Forever players will never move to Stadium en masse until it's free. It's not even about the money. It's about tradition, and it's about fear. Tradition because it's always been free. It's always been available to anyone, whether it's some kid whose parents don't allow him to buy games online, or a guy in a country somewhere that online payment options are not available. It brought in people from all walks of life, because it was totally open. There's also a fear surrounding the new game. Fear that no one else will move to it, so no one else moves. Everyone is paralyzed by this fear, and so they stay in Nations Forever. Eliminating the price from TM2 Stadium could be a huge move to remove much of that fear, even if some of it may still remain because of factors like minimum system requirements.

Also a very valid Point. I know a lot of people who are "awaiting" a larger number of online-players in TM2S Before they do the switch. Right now this is going the opposite direction as there are fewer and fewer online players.....downward spiral correctomundo.........

I'm approaching this from a player's perspective and what I'd like to see happen to help the game survive and flourish. I don't know how much is viable from an economic standpoint. That's your job. What I do know is that sometimes you have to take risks to get huge rewards.

I'm a huge fan of TM. I've played it for a long time. But I'm also not an idiot. I see activity gradually going down and I'd be remiss if I didn't point it out. So many cool things have been added with ManiaPlanet, and there's so much potential, but a run of bad publicity and bad marketing is ruining this game I love so dearly.

Sure, there's people still playing, but it's a niche group of dedicated players. It's not growing by leaps and bounds like it should.

Totally agree and very well formulated. i am sorry to say though that it seems Nadeo have all the answers and are totally dismissing what everybody here is trying to Point out what is missing or wrong with the game today as beeing negative and/or totally wrong and that we have no clue as to what they are doing or planning and that patience is needed.

I, as a player, can only judge from what i have in front of me currently and i am sorry to say that it is more fun to still play the old TMUF, more online players bringing more fun to the game and overall, better Graphics and sound.

So to finish off, i totally agree on this also from Eyebo's great post:

In my opinion, drastic measures will need to be taken in the next year if you expect TM to ever regain the popularity it had in the past, let alone survive.

[jojoba007]

I, as a player, can only judge from what i have in front of me currently and i am sorry to say that it is more fun to still play the old TMUF, more online players bringing more fun to the game and overall, better Graphics and sound.

Like I said. The most people do like TMUF better then TM2.

In my opinion TM2 went the wrong development way.
The majority just dont like it. Stadium has that special something, TM2 has not.

The last environment must be less serious,
more wacky, more compact, more toward micromachines instead of leaning towards the regular racing games, more crazy blocks instead of a lot of roads matching regular racing game roads.
I think this is the main problem (and please if possible use f2p with some formula)

People start complaining even more after the release of Valley, what does this say?
To me that they don't like the choices that are made for TM2.

Make it more wacky, less serious and the game will be saved!
Another envi in the style of Canyon and Valley and the game is doomed!

[HaagseSmurf]

The last environment must be less serious,
more wacky, more compact, more toward micromachines instead of leaning towards the regular racing games, more crazy blocks instead of a lot of roads matching regular racing game roads.

I dont think there is a big market for micromachines in my opinion, and it certainly isnt something i am looking for.
I remember some tracks in TMN where you have to steer those micromachines from far above and that was the part most people didnt really like. I think the solution to bring more people to the game is just marketingwise. There are so many people on this planet who never even heard of Trackmania 2. If more people would knew about it, more people would play it.

People who didnt want to play elsewhere then TMNF or TMUF will probably never swap anymore to Trackmania 2 no matter what happens in TM2. They allready have probably seen what they could expect and they decided to still play TMNF or TMUF. So for TM2 its time to focus on new players instead of the players of TMNF or TMUF. And focussing on new players can only be done by letting the world know what they have to offer. Mouth to mouth advertising is nice but probably most mouth to mouth advertising is also probably done by the community that still is alive in TM2.
So that means that it is time for the next step: advertising, advertising, advertising.

Greetz,

[Hubby]

So that means that it is time for the next step: advertising, advertising, advertising.

Greetz,

Another great way to get more interest in the game and potentially more players is to have a ''Lets Play ****Mania'' on Youtube.

I'm sure if nadeo contacted some famous lets players they would be happy to play/review the game.

It will cost Nadeo absolutely nothing (apart from sending a few copies of the game(s) to lets players), That means free advertising on one of the biggest websites on the internet

[Alter-Fox]

I think that's a pretty good idea...

[Pedal]

People who didnt want to play elsewhere then TMNF or TMUF will probably never swap anymore to Trackmania 2 no matter what happens in TM2. They allready have probably seen what they could expect and they decided to still play TMNF or TMUF. So for TM2 its time to focus on new players instead of the players of TMNF or TMUF. And focussing on new players can only be done by letting the world know what they have to offer. Mouth to mouth advertising is nice but probably most mouth to mouth advertising is also probably done by the community that still is alive in TM2.
So that means that it is time for the next step: advertising, advertising, advertising.

Greetz,

There are some truth in this, there are for sure TMF-players that will never change to TM2S no matter what for various reasons. However there are also players who would love to change but for various reasons can or will not yet do it.

There are for sure people in TMF awaiting further development of TM2. When people ask me if i have tried TM2 yet i reply: "yes, but the AA in TM2 is no good so i feel the Graphics is still better in TMF and the new sound in TM2 is just horrible so i Went back to TMF" and people say "aha, might as well just keep on playing this then and see what happens"........ This is just one example of the various talks and discussions about various issues of TM2S that keeps the TMF-players from moving over.

Regardless of the best Place to start recruiting new players, new or old players, what amazes me is how passively Nadeo is sitting back and just looking at the decline in online-players........... i mean, c'mon, do something.

The players you loose now and have lost in the last months will be very, very challenging for you to get back to the game as they will need to see major differences/improvements in order to get back into the game.

[Omnixor]

also, just like yesterday read some users' posts about slow and sluggish ("terrible") trackeditor compared to TMF one, and I agree to certain point - for experienced builders block selection is pretty slow, and rightclick-to-rotate lag is still there

[Hubby]

Regardless of the best Place to start recruiting new players, new or old players, what amazes me is how passively Nadeo is sitting back and just looking at the decline in online-players........... i mean, c'mon, do something.

The players you loose now and have lost in the last months will be very, very challenging for you to get back to the game as they will need to see major differences/improvements in order to get back into the game.

Yep 100% right, Nadeo is just sitting back and relaxing while losing existing and potentially new players by the day.

Maybe they are working VERY hard at questmania ?

[jojoba007]

I dont think there is a big market for micromachines in my opinion, and it certainly isnt something i am looking for.
I remember some tracks in TMN where you have to steer those micromachines from far above and that was the part most people didnt really like. I think the solution to bring more people to the game is just marketingwise. There are so many people on this planet who never even heard of Trackmania 2. If more people would knew about it, more people would play it.

Sorry, I had to explain myself a little better. With micromachines I mean, leaning more towards micromachines, like stadium does in my opinion (so it gets less serious and more wacky), instead of leaning more towards regular racing games like TM2 does!