The hitboxes of MP3

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Hylis
Nadeo
Nadeo
Posts: 3933
Joined: 14 Jun 2010, 11:58

Re: The hitboxes of MP3

Post by Hylis »

Here are some quotes on Q3, Q3 and QL
The Quake 3 Arena Bot by J.M.P. van Waveren wrote:"Quake III Arena uses bounding boxes for collision detection. The player resides inside such a bounding box and there is only collision with this bounding box. The detailed player model that is visible in the game is not used for collision detection. The bounding boxes are axial; the bounding planes of the box are aligned with the coordinate axes of the game world. ..."
Quake 4 Wikipedia wrote:One of the changes to the network code is a move from the per-polygon hit detection system used in Doom 3 back to using a hitbox system like most other online first-person shooters such as other Quake games and Half-Life. In the 1.4.x point release, these "axis aligned bounding boxes" were replaced with axis aligned octagonal "cylinder", to make the hit-boxes more representative of the model shape.
Lorfa on Quake Live forums wrote:Hit detection from weapons is done with a cylinder, 33 units in diameter. This is determined by sv_cylinderScale which is 1.1 on QL servers. (...) Hit detection for objects/map is still done with the old bounding box which is a rectangular prism.
And finally a topic about how a player would like the model to be realign about the hitbox etc.
Image sample taken from this topic

The new hitbox of SM is a cylinder for the body, like Quake Live, instead of the three spheres of before. For the head, however, we have a little sphere instead of a small cylinder for QL.

At the speed of a network, the arms moves too fast to be precisely located on another player computer. So, if your opponent hits you, it's in his reality, and not a common one. There are some advantages, and some disadvantages for these technics, and for the one that understand why a game like Quake finally used these type of hitbox, after 20 years of evolution, I think they will be able to understand why it's now on SM. It was not before because we had to make a computation algoritm that goes a little further, by taking into consideration the real place of the hitbox even between two simulation frames, to increase precision. And if you would like to debate this type of things, do not hesitate to be precise as well: take pictures from online replay, take into account that there is the visual of things and the reality of things (the laser does not leave from the arm but from the head) and send them to us so we can investiguate. We totally agree that a robust hitbox, meaning that masters can master it, is important. So, far, we saw some masters for it, and unless an unknown issue, I expect now to see them master it even more, thanks to the new hitbox and improved netcode + netvision.
novationx
Posts: 2723
Joined: 10 Aug 2013, 22:33

Re: The hitboxes of MP3

Post by novationx »

In the video the enemy is standing still. His reality = server reality = attackers reality... Or am I wrong?

I understand that when a player is moving that we can see things that are different because of the internet-delay... Ok. But here in the video everybody is just standing still. This gives me the idea that the hitbox is too big:

I can shoot above the enemy = hit
I can shoot behind the enemy = hit
I can shoot infront of the enemy = hit
--> Hitbox is too big

Or is my way of thinking wrong?
The neverending waiting game has to stop.
Hylis
Nadeo
Nadeo
Posts: 3933
Joined: 14 Jun 2010, 11:58

Re: The hitboxes of MP3

Post by Hylis »

best would be that I post a screenshot of the hitbox, like this for QL
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/1781/keelall.jpg

I will see if I can do this when I am back (not here this week)
viperozza
Posts: 108
Joined: 09 Nov 2012, 10:42

Re: The hitboxes of MP3

Post by viperozza »

novationx wrote:In the video the enemy is standing still. His reality = server reality = attackers reality... Or am I wrong?

I understand that when a player is moving that we can see things that are different because of the internet-delay... Ok. But here in the video everybody is just standing still. This gives me the idea that the hitbox is too big:

I can shoot above the enemy = hit
I can shoot behind the enemy = hit
I can shoot infront of the enemy = hit
--> Hitbox is too big

Or is my way of thinking wrong?
Now they are going to explain this BUG (like they already did before) with some kind of physics explanation of body warping and time-space bending :roflol:
FrancoW
Posts: 1
Joined: 05 May 2014, 18:05

Re: The hitboxes of MP3

Post by FrancoW »

Image

THIS HITBOX :o
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Diesel75
Posts: 86
Joined: 11 Aug 2012, 18:16

Re: The hitboxes of MP3

Post by Diesel75 »

Show the netrate , ping and snapshotdelta because when you link a img like this with nothing , they can t know if this is true or not.
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fleo
Posts: 304
Joined: 02 Sep 2011, 12:56

Re: The hitboxes of MP3

Post by fleo »

FrancoW wrote: THIS HITBOX :o
Don't mix hitbox and netcode/lag.

The hitbox model used is very simple, but imo (and I guess that's what Lanfeust meant) it's not precise enough. It's a good idea to inspire from other (good) games and I think you tried the hitbox from QL because it's a fast fps too, but the common points stops here. There are the differences:
-Visual models of QL are huge vs the StormMan is thinner and really not as thick as large => the hitbox has to be more precise with a thickness different from the width.
-Animations of QL models are limited, ie arms and legs are not moving a lot. A model in QL stays most of the time in almost the same position vs the SM is moving a lot when he's running, jumping, ... => only one cylinder for the whole body is not enough, it doesn't match during animations
-Weapons in QL are larger, you cannot shot with a 1cm precision that's why they use a simple hitbox in QL.
-You're constantly moving in QL vs hiding in SM. It's very frustrating when you shoot at the foot/hand of a SM hidden behind a pole and he isn't dying. Or the opposite, when your enemy shoots above your head when you're hidden behind the pole and you die...

I'm probably missing some major differences but I made my point. The choice to inspire from QL may not be the best idea. I also guess than a more accurate hitbox like in CS would consume a lot a resources and may appear disturbing in a game with lags. So that's why I believe we have to find a compromise.

Even if it's not obvious I'd like to say than I'm happy you tried a new hitbox and I don't think it's worse than before but we haven't reach our goal yet, keep on working!! :yes:
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tof25
Posts: 30
Joined: 15 Jun 2010, 12:23

Re: The hitboxes of MP3

Post by tof25 »

Just need to use a R2D2 skin to fit with the hitbox :thumbsup:
Alexey85
Posts: 465
Joined: 14 Jul 2012, 10:54

Re: The hitboxes of MP3

Post by Alexey85 »

Maybe a bad idea, but whatever. How about to add a visual border around the model matching the actual hitbox if it is possible to design it so that it doesn't look bad. I think it might be done to fit into the game setting naturally, there are visible energy fields matching the models already, for example. No need to draw it solid, just the borders that limit the hitbox.
Fabinou38
Posts: 403
Joined: 09 Apr 2011, 18:13
Location: Europe / France / Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes / Isère

Re: The hitboxes of MP3

Post by Fabinou38 »

Fabinou38 wrote:Guys, I think (and I'm sure) the hitboxes aren't be perfect because the animation of storm man (walk and shoots) are very "simple" (not precise).
So I can explain that soon, if you want
Image

FULL size>>> http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/201 ... boxsm1.jpg

Also when we move head, others players can see this move 0.5 sec after, that's explain this hitbox ( >> No cheat )
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MP3 / MP4 beta tester
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