The Titlepacksystem - The False Prophet

[Pedal]

I feel, unfortunately, that this is turned into something very "black or white".

All players that are not agreeing to or liking the current state or the development of MP/TM is automatically classified as "negative". I get the feeling that "either your with us or your against us".

I feel it's a bit more nuanced than that; i truly believe many are raising their voice (in their own way and manner, right or wrong) in pure concern as they see something they love is about to get lost or mistreated. They may seem right out rude but in the end, i truly believe it is expressed in pure concern and not in an outright negative, as in hurting, manner.

By saying this, I also feel, seriously, that the hardcore fans and Hylis himslef, should have a more humble approach and, at least make the impression, that you are actually listening and considering the thoughts expressed instead of, as you currently do, automatically dismiss them as "negative", "nah, you know nothing" etc etc, which is the feeling i get from reading your replies today.

For myself, all i can say is that i love Trackmania Stadium. Unfortunately i cannot enjoy TM2S because of the lack of AA and misplaced sounds so i have to stick to TMNF. But this doesn't keep me from coming here, HOPING that some day, i will read here that improvements are beeing made to suit my needs/wishes. In the meanwhile, i also raise my voice, expressing the improvements i, personally would like to see to the game. And what is i then classified as? A negative player effectively slowing down the development of MP...........

Hylis, there is an old saying from an ancient chinese: Keep your friends close but keep your "enemies" closer...... I encourage you to give that saying a thought for a few minutes.......

Please, don't wipe out all that have another opinion that you on the game as negative and destructive, in the end, they are all here (with a few clear exceptions ) because they love the game and would like to see it succeed, and this in a near, understandable future, not understanding be patient, be patient, be patient....

[Hylis]

You are making me put them in a binary way, but it's far from that. The negative players I sometimes talk about are the ones that you know it will be negative when you read the name, before opening the post. After 10 years of forum reading, I know the difference. I read A LOT of posts, all the wishes, sort them all out and make priorities, find solutions and make choices. I am listening to frustrations & hopes, not to negativness, people that are saying that they would do better choices or that they think they have the solution without even starting to talk about the arguments.

And it will happen again with the next update as well, when they will see how much we change the gameplay of Shootmania again. But in the end, I will still read a lot, think, make a solution out of it, do choices and update. It includes the comments from truely negative players, but I know that others will pop up or that they will even stay themselves negative and that it's much more about something else than only talking about feelings & frustrations in a positive way.

[Omnixor]

And it will happen again with the next update as well, when they will see how much we change the gameplay of Shootmania again.

again? at forums with rage-filled guys...

[TMarc]

Very nice post, pedal!

I also have the impression that many got stuck in their opinions - for or against the different things around the games here. Everyone finds something else more important, and is fighting a lot for it, sometimes much too eagerly.
The people and the developpers are all doing it with enthousiasm, with passion.
This can lead to more aggressive tone, but that's OK, as long as it does not turn into unfair personal attack or even insults.
Luckily in most cases things settle down quickly - sometimes only until the next game update... as Hylis just posted by pure coincidence while I was writing this reply.

You're right, on one side the fans should not exaggerate with their enlightment, but the hypercritics should also not always take countrary and too positive responses as categorical denial of their arguments.
The right way is often not the golden middle.

E.g. to some, your wish to have better AA and the sound issue might "sound" like more or less concrete alibis for not playing the games, but it's your personal decision and there's absolutely nothing bad in it.
Taste is personal, no one has to like everything. Diversity brings life and colors into the world!
I personally can live with no good AA option (as AA often creates visual artifacts on farer fine structures, like trees in Valley, I often switch AA off), but I can understand why the sound is disturbing you. You must have a very good setup and a very good pair of ears!
Let's hope such things will get fixed sooner than later, so you can find out if the game has better qualities then.

Between the few hypercritics and the few hyperactive, I think that the majority of users is undecided if they should like or hate what is happening, or that they already resigned, or that they even do not care at all, and just play.

But not to care is too easy, right?

Now, not to be totally off-topic, I would encourage you to have a look at the probably most suprising actual pack after the release of the RPG and the Level Crossing title packs: the Valley City by darkpuddle1 (currently in development) .

[Pedal]

Thanks for the reply TMarc,

I must admit for myself that i also have let my emotions run too freely and straight out bashing and critisising the game, in a straight out negative way, the current development of it and also some personal attacks on some people here. I am sorry for that and all i can say is that it is all rooted in a big desire for this game to succeed and get back to it's former glory.

I don't know how many hours i have played this game and also during situations where i really should have been working or beeing with my family.... but there was "always" a game to prepare for and a match to play... it was a pain in the a** at times but once it was over and the match was played, all was forgotten.....

Now all of this is gone....it's history... The team i was in is dismissed because there was not enough players behind in TMNF and not enough players that moved on to TM2S........ i miss those days now and i miss all the friends i made during those times.

A game devoper today almost has a social responsibility. I look at my son whose 18 yrs old..... him and his friends doesn't go outside and hang out at the local pizzeria like i did when i was that age, no, they "gather" in front of their pc's, alone, playing CS:GO and chatting and hanging out on skype in their headsets as they play....

So, no wonder that people get their emotions flowing as this effects their personal life..... but in the end, i truly, truly belive all "negative" or constructive critics is rooted in a universal desire for this to succeed.

Saying this, i also understand Hylis and the rest. It is easy, by beeing "hammered" day after day, to get a liitle tired of it all and get to generalice and "sort" the amount of comments.

With regards to my standpoint on the lack of AA, yes i am picky and yes, i do have a high-end, 5K computer, basically running everything on "ultra" settings. I also have a home-theater sound-system connected to it and i like to crank the volume up so i notice every little "error" so to speak. With the risk of sounding biased, this is "only" a problem for me in TM2S, not in TMUF.

Sorry OP for taking this OT..........

[edk]

I'm not sure the titlepack system could be more convenient or easier to use. It's the equivalent of starting up Half-Life 2 and having a menu of all your favorite mods right there. Not to mention that when you have a titlepack installed the servers for it will show up in the main games server list. So, I can be in Canyon and still see servers for RAID. It's damn nice if I do say so myself. And outside of Nadeo making custom 3D objects for each and every one of us, titlepack creation is about as accessible as it could ever get.

Lack of players, or player number count, has just about nothing to do with titlepacks. Likewise and with few exceptions, download numbers will never get huge as mods for games have historically only been a fraction of the primary player base.

Why are player numbers as they are? Who knows and noone can really say with 100% certainty. We live in a subjective world which doesn't make sense atleast half the time. Generally speaking, outside of VALVe and Blizzard, you would be hard pressed to find another developer updating and supporting their games years after release. I just try to enjoy it for what it is and not worry about the rest.

[TGYoshi]

...

Whenever I see your name I expect some blabla that "it will be ok after mp3/the universal demo/the next update for sure/we have plans" or something defending your own ideas without argumentation because secretzzzz.


I just want the game to succeed and that's why I post here (like other people) and every opinion counts, negatively stated or not, including mine and others who may post negatively from time to time. Understanding why negativity is expressed may yield value. It's some sort of frustration, not pure hate, but they try to convey a serious message too.

[Hylis]

There is the right on this earth to make the party and have fun! And in a party, people are positive, like in a social place. I don't think that being positive should be balanced by being negative. Being positive is just better, end of story. And you can be damn positive and make huge critics without no trouble. And I can appreciate some rage sometimes!

Pedal, I am not surprised by the fact that the frustration comes from a lost party feeling as well. And this is why I think that negativness is adding a lot to it. But it's quite something what you say: some are playing maybe too much in spite of work or family, that people don't get around a pizza but play all day in front of the screen. And then, you say we have a social responsability. We are trying to make "social" games as much as possible: build, share, communicate, explore, imagine, manage, team up AND also do something else in your life. We are always trying to think on how to make the games compatible with a life and to avoid require to be no-life. If I would do a MMO, I would make it open 2 hours per week, per world (so you can play 10 worlds if you want to play 20 hours per week, but without the added benefit of being much stronger than everybody else, and so make you less social for virtual life social recognition)

So, yes, I think it's important to have a social place, and that in social place people should be often more positive. If some would speak like they do in real world, in an office, I think they would quickly be dismissed by the group that is trying to enjoy and make it a good place. This is not opposed at some good rage sometimes, but that's not a place for hate or being motivated by the desire to be negative, like some are clearly being moved by at the moment.

Social skills: have fun together, be positive, respect other people, avoid to judge, create, share, compete in a good spirit, communicate, listen, accept critics, write etc. I think that Maniaplanet is a good way to acquire social skill and I would bet that people that are great in their social life are less likely to be "always negative" and I clearly hope for them to improve from there. I have seen many people over ten years telling that they were in a bad mood because of their social life, and so having an impact on their attitude, like if this place was a way to spill out all their everyday life frustration. If it can help them for that, at least, let take it as a social feature ^_^

[mattw_cstrfan]

Just my two cents: If custom objects were usable in the main TM2/SM titles, I feel it would destroy the spirit of the game; tipping the playing (or rather, map-making) field unfairly in favor of those who can model out anything they please as opposed to having to rely on the same set of building blocks as everyone else. Not to mention the problems that would result from allowing custom blocks in the main title -- locators really should not be used for anything that is essential to gameplay. There is no such thing as 100% uptime; files will go down, and there's no good "graceful" fallback that the game can do if one of the custom object's locators suddenly returns a 404. That would leave sticking custom objects in the map files themselves... and that would just make them even larger than they already are.


Now, having said that; I really, really don't like the split community feeling I'm getting from titlepacks. After getting used to the, well, "United" feeling of United, the separation between every environment, every campaign, every mode feels like a kick in the teeth. Let alone that it makes it that much harder to find someone willing to play a game mode that you want to play that isn't as popular -- I'm looking at you, SM Joust...

[Pedal]

Interesting anology with the party and we can use that further;

"Let's say that one evening at around 6-7 PM (TMU) people started to gather for a party that would turn out to be a great party. There was lot's of people, everybody seemed to have a good time and emotions where good.

But at around 11 PM (MP) something changed. The DJ's started to play a different kind of music. The spirit of the party after the change was initially good but quite rapidly changed. People started to shout at the DJ's to change the music again and they kept saying "yes, yes, it's coming it's coming......

Now we're at 2 o'clock AM and the DJ's are still playing the same music.... Many many people have left the party without saying a word and the few ones left are getting more and more unpatient and loud. The only ones that seem to enjoy themsleves are the DJ's that's making the music. All the other casual party-people have staid behind because they like the DJ's and would like to hang out more with them. But they keep playing the same kind of music even though they are saying something different will come up...."

I think this sort of illustrates the "story" of TM and the situation we see here now. Many of the casual players are running out of patience and are using what's left of it to express what the "party" need in order to get back on track, from their point of view. As time goes on frustration grows bigger and emotions get higher, that's human nature.

Hylis, i sell new and used cars for a living and i am quite succesful at it too. However, i can promise you i have had to deal with quite a few angry and dissastified (negative) customers over the years. Even though they not always have right about their complaints i always make sure they get the feeling of beeing right, solve their issue and wave them happily out the door again. One thing i have learnt is to never, ever take critisism or negativity personally. It is not me personally they are mad about, i am just a tool that can solve their problem. i have also learnt to never, ever say to a dissatisfied customer "No, you are wrong. This is not how it works etc etc" If they really are wrong i make sure they understand.

Of course, this is easy for me to say with "only" a few thousands customers. You have millions.....and you have yourself created the product you sell. I can easily understand why you take critisism so personally. I can also appreciate the way you want the community to grow and that everybody should contribute.

My "contribution" here and now will be to hope the best for upcoming demo and continue to drop by these forums from time to time to see if and when developments are beeing implemented to better suit my likings.

I stop here as this is now way beyond OT.......