SSM Protest | matchmaking servers shut down

[novationx]

at first i wasn't sure how i think about that kind of protest

now i played in an elite lobby for about 30 minutes
after having to cancel 3 matches i was finally matched with my ally
though another player cancelled
that kept going for the next 10 minutes until we finally could play a match
after that, trying to find the next match
i have been asked to be a substitute and had to cancel again because, guess what, when i select an ally, i want to play with it, such surprise

now i sort of understand the protest

yeps. More bugs since the update

[godo]

.
But the timing is bad. Maybe the demo will be awesome and all of this will be for nothing.

The Mp3 update should be great, that was Hylis said, finaly less players than Mp2 after one year(waiting time of the update)... I'm realy septic about the next update, after one month they can fix what is wrong in one month ?

But I realy hope you have right, that's all i want ^^

The biggest thing Nadeo does wrong is that they, with almost every update, try to fix things that aren't broken and leave in the most broken things. This leaves us with a more broken game than before the update.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz-PtEJEaqY

+1

It will make players understand why i do support nadeo's title siege as it it, and why i refused to make a Rocket vs Laser server.

I don't want the siege only in rox vs rail, and that's not wat SSM want. The real problem for us (and other players with who i have discuss about siegeV2) it's the Gates. This is just horrible to defend it (player vision) but for Hylis it's realy good so he want to keep them (at the last discuss i have got with him).
Defend this, it's horrible for some reason, i have already explain them to Hylis.

With nuc and roxattackers, the problems is this weapon are realy unbalanced in siege. Have good score with nuc and rox attack it's realy easy (for some reason already explain to Hylis), but when you take rail+rox it more hard.

I have play a lot with the switxh weapon, and i'm not sure it's a good thing finaly, but may it's because avec nuc/rox atk ^^

We have creat roxVSlaser for players who are borring by nuc/rox atk, and they asked for. And like you see, lot of players come play on it.

I want to keep real siege with the weapon choice, but the weapon balance have to be better, i have asker this since long time... (play with reload time, cancel reload; change nuc range, creat weapon for siege... lot of solutions can be done) And if Hylis realy want a good competitiv 5v5 mod, i have to do something for this all this problems and not in 1 year ^^

Nadeo has helped SSM to create their matchmakings, they helped them and SSM have used this power given by Nadeo against Nadeo.

We don't use it against them but for them, it's different

We are helped by Nadeo more than a lot of us do want to acknowledge. If they do not care about the players, why even bother to rewrite stuff? (either to satisfaction or not). That is where the answer lies they do really care.

I think all are know what nadeo do, like they know what SSM, Lynx, Cplay, Paragon and all other teams and mappers, moders ... do for the game. But sometimes they can make mistake, like MP3 ^^
But even with all their work, lot of player are borred beacause the last update has creat lot of bug, don't fixed lot of old bugs (which was suposed to be fixed with MP3 update), killed obstacle (realy less obstacle players than MP3), killed siege for me, ... Here are i just speak about players (not mappers, scripters, moders ...), because for player nothing realy change, exept wall color, since MP3.

at first i wasn't sure how i think about that kind of protest

now i played in an elite lobby for about 30 minutes
after having to cancel 3 matches i was finally matched with my ally
though another player cancelled
that kept going for the next 10 minutes until we finally could play a match
after that, trying to find the next match
i have been asked to be a substitute and had to cancel again because, guess what, when i select an ally, i want to play with it, such surprise

now i sort of understand the protest

yeps. More bugs since the update

Just to finish, this protest is not just about MM or Siege. It's about wrong things who are done or not fixed since long time, all MP bugs and problems ,not just SM but also Stadium, Canyon and Valley.

I realy hope the update of july will fix all of this, we will see.

But don't forget, if we have do this is to creat a reaction from Nadeo ans also from players, because like all we love this game and we don"t want to see it dead.

And that wasn't so bad a day without us no ?

[TheBigMiike]

Nadeo has helped SSM to create their matchmakings, they helped them and SSM have used this power given by Nadeo against Nadeo.


We don't use it against them but for them, it's different

I would said that you use the fact you are the only one to provide matchamking so you use this power against Nadeo without preventing them and you don't have prevented them because you know that Nadeo will be annoyed if you put off your servers without preventing them.

[Hylis]

On Friday night, it was not announced like a protest. A player reported it (the same who where asking Nadeo to host MM earlier but that I defended on a long week end) And here, it's just at the start of a week-end and the fact that Magnetik opened servers is more simple than the SSM action, I think he made it just to support the players, and I think players can thank him for thinking and acting like that. And even if Magnetik is from Nadeo, it does not mean he represents Nadeo.

The last thing Magnetik told me before leaving on Friday night is that they were rewriting a part of the Matchmaking to fix the long awaiting issues. But if you think he made nothing since the last months, you are just wrong.

After Maniaplanet 3 release, the audience mainly lowered on Shootmania two weeks after the release, exactly when we had to fix the huge work made to convert the whole matchmaking system to ManiaScript to avoid players to have to host mysql & manialive in order to make the host easier and less costly. In addition we cut the unlimited Elite invitation which played a part of the reduction. Since a month it's really stable. So, if closing the matchmaking servers at release of MP3 for two weeks reduced the audience, what SSM was expecting to do in closing the servers?

Since a month we are working, including some wishes of players in the wish thread, where you should link your posts to me if you would like to protest well. There is no post of the two SSM that protests here, Speed or Godo, in the thread. Two weeks ago, I sorted out 1000+ wishes that I have. If you don't take time to put your own priorities in the wish list, it's more difficult for me. Each update, if there something wrong, go in the wishlist and put first what you hope to be fixed first. As simple as that. I can not take into account the previous versions since I can not know what are the priorities now that there is an update.

I will release Hello Planet #4 on Monday and I hope that some will understand better our work and our strategy.

Until then, I know that answering like that will help nothing. I know it could help if I was dealing with customer by always saying that they are right and that we are wrong in order to help them feel better. If they are unhappy and want another car because of that, let's be it, because my wish is for some players to stop acting against their wish to see more player around. I am working hard, and that's the best I can do for them in addition to answer like I believe.

[mine3]

Allright!

[djhubertus]

I miss the old SM

What do you mean? There are old blocks, It's possible to bring back beta 2 movement etc.

[sadzealot]

I miss the old SM

What do you mean? There are old blocks, It's possible to bring back beta 2 movement etc.

The problem is the way the game is heading, and it's the wrong direction and always have been. Some of the changes are just weird and it doesn't add up to what was promised early. As a something they would very much be behind, e-sport and everything. Free2Play on release for certain modes etc.

But it seems matchmaking is all they are behind. When it comes down to it Nadeo has kind of been "We give tools, community do the rest". And sure, that would work if the game actually had players and a community of a certain size. And interest for streaming. Watchable, fun, creative, fast, action. But where is all that?

And then there has been the changes to the game. New blocks? Looks cool and all, but on most you can't walljump on the sides. Because there's stuff in the way. Walljumps? Slower and worse than before, with less control. Having to waste stamina to do certain walljumps? Just bad, but by the looks of it Nadeo wants to take away any kind of walljumps like that. Some walls have been hardcoded to not allow more than 1 walljump now. Other walls let you do that still, but not giving any boost whatsoever.

Why doesn't attacker (in elite) get fast reload after kills when he's on a railpad? Why was this change made?

Why are core bugs in the engine like microstutterjumps on landing not fixed over a year after release?

Fact of the matter is that the gameplay suffers from everything being blockbased (in my opinin) and divisions into titlepacks and a whole lot of features in maniaplanet and the game itself which are never explain except for on forums etc. It should be easily explainable either by the menus and explanations inside the game or you'll suffer. There isn't a big enough playerbase to take advantage of all you have done. And by the looks of it, there never really will be if it keeps going like this for another year.

Another note is that movement on chipped/cracked castle blocks is now far worse than what it was in beta1+beta2. Introduction of the arrow weapon wasn't what I hoped it would be, atleast not for elite. It's kinda like nucleus, a big are of effect slowmoving projectile. Skillbased? Having to stand on a certain block or part of the map? Why not pickups with a certain amount of ammo or certain reload-time for the weapon that can be put around the map? Or something else.. It feels like the blockbased system is just hurting the game.

Shooting bounce rockets and doing powerwalljumps and staminajumps because the map allows you to isn't creative and gets stale fast.

Simple fact of the matter is, B2 felt speedier and had a lot more freedom in terms of gameplay. And that's where the creativity should be. In movement and decisions. When it's blockbased/mapbased it gets stale and very uninteresting.

SM is a BETTER game than many other games out there. It's just MORE BORING than most games. And not very well supported by the developer which seems to have kind of abandoned ship. You always say you need time, and that you're gonna post your thoughts forward. This is not enough. The universal demo I don't see working either. 1 hour pr day? "Sure".

If it was unlimited gameplay for unlimited of hours pr day with other features disabled (like advanced replay editor, map editor, skin customization etc) it could really boost SMs playerbase. And attraction. And attention. etc.

You seem to not realize you might have to look backwards a little and find the fun bits that are lost. A fertilized egg needs a womb the first 9 months. Nadeo has not been that womb for Shootmania, and the premature birth is now hurting Shootmanias development.

But I've been saying this for over a year now... I don't see you listening even now

[caspa]

Simple fact of the matter is, B2 felt speedier and had a lot more freedom in terms of gameplay. And that's where the creativity should be. In movement and decisions. When it's blockbased/mapbased it gets stale and very uninteresting.

Beta2 was the pinnacle of SM. I can't stress how much better it was than the current gameplay. Despite that, the game still had the same problems like you said - mapmaking for elite has always been an arduous task, due to the strict limitations that the editor allows and the fact that there is really no scope for variety if you want balanced gameplay.

Obviously Shootmania isn't just elite, but all of these blocks that have been added have absolutely no use when it comes to competitive gameplay. What is the deal with these doors that you have to shoot to open? With the current mapeditor there is basically no way to make them viable in any way for elite. Portals? I really don't understand why they have been implemented in this way (standing on a certain block and right clicking the portal you want to go to). These blocks (along with most other new ones) have no place in this game.

I can understand that nadeo might have wanted to add more variables into the game (seeing as the only real factor that seperates players anymore is aim), but as a result of that the game has become a whole lot less tactical.

When the game was in beta2 (the point in time where we had a shit ton of people playing), people were beginning to discover that there was actually more we could do to have dynamic gameplay. For example, beta2 walljumps. I know that along with myself, Hash(sadzealot) and many others were exploring the possibilities that it brought and people were actually beginning to master them. We were able to scale up walls and pull off high risk/high reward tricks which in turn looked really cool and was beginning to lead other players to try it too. If you watch some old streams from around that time (March-June), you'll hear a lot of casters refer to the movement and how it was becoming a crucial part of the game.

Sadly all of the fun stuff was taken away from us. And this is when the game went sharply downhill.

For the record, I've long since quit this game and uninstalled it. However I am still interested to see how the community feels and how nadeo responds to them. I just read the latest dev blog and once again I can't really tell what they're trying to do. Its just a bunch of vague terms thrown around to give us the illusion that they actually care about the pertinent aspects of the game. No doubt this post will probably get ignored by the devs as it contains more than a hint of negativity.

Regardless, I am very happy with this protest. It is great to see that someone is taking a stand against what they feel is wrong. Unfortunately we can't vote with our wallet since we've already paid for the game, but this seems like the next best thing.

edit: sorry if the post seems a little disorganised, i've got so many thoughts and things that I want to try and say but its hard to organise them all in my head.

[sadzealot]

edit: sorry if the post seems a little disorganised, i've got so many thoughts and things that I want to try and say but its hard to organise them all in my head.

That's always been my issue too

But in all seriousness, even when I did formulate my thoughts clearly I got ignored. It was "we're going this way with the game anyway, so either stfu or get on board".

I know that's not what was being said, but that's in the end what it sounded like. "We want to move forward with people who want us to succeed" has been seen posted by devs. That attitude is not "we listen to the community".

But the community (a big certain part of it atleast)feels that the game has taken steps backwards, GAMEPLAYWISE, even tho you say it's "mowing forward". In terms of fun and exciting gameplay, it has gotten worse. Far worse. Stable walljumps is great, but why not stable B2 walljumps'? Why not bounce rockets (atleast for Elite) with a Fire2 button? Cost 1,5-2,5 ammo, depending? Instead of blocks I mean. And as mentioned, new blocks are very much useless in terms of competitive play.

I don't know. New UT coming, basically just waiting it out hoping this game makes some progress before then.

Because we really like it. We really want it to succeed. But you always see so much negativitiy in everything.

So I'll say it again... We DO want it to succeed





PS! You just gotta listen to what we're actually saying...

[caspa]

Because we really like it. We really want it to succeed. But you always see so much negativitiy in everything.

So I'll say it again... We DO want it to succeed

PS! You just gotta listen to what we're actually saying...

This is the fundamental error that Nadeo have continued to make. All the people that post on these forums.. we're just trying to put our opinions forward (whether they are conveyed positively or negatively) to get the game to a state where the core mechanics rarely need tweaking. But this has never really been the case.

To me, whats worse is the kind of post that TMarc likes to make. He likes to make all sorts of strange assumptions about gameplay and the community, defending SM and MP to the hilt. This is the guy who tried to say that rockets and rails going through fences should not be seen as a game-breaking bug, but rather a very rare possibility that rails/projectiles could pass through very tiny holes in a chain link fence.... yeah maybe in real life but not in a game where the fence is there to provide cover..

What annoys me more is that the developers have been able to completely dictate the mechanics. Yes they are the developers and it is their game, but when the ethos is something like "we give you the basic tools to go on and make your own game", their actions directly contradict their intentions. We should have the possibility to customize things like movement/walljumps.

Don't even get me started on titlepacks...