SSM Protest | matchmaking servers shut down

[weerwolf]

a forum like this often acts as an magnifing glass for things that do not work or are not fine for a few intense players who go on the forums. This way the negative part will allways overrun the positive part. It comparison is as simple as mapkarma. Players who like it, usually dont vote. players who dont like it vote is quick and usually only 3x-.
I do not blame hylis for being personal at Sad - He often posts before pointing directly and personal at Hylis, where there is big team and 3 divisions at work. Yes a leader should be diplomatic, but does not have to take it all. Ive been managing my team for 7 years now with up 100 members and 18 servers. U should now how i sometimes react to continues attacks, even when im natural diplomatic in behaviour. I also do have limits. The players who come to our sige server now with the normal mode can confirm that ^^ cause my limits there have been passed. And i must say this also happens IRL as a seller - customer relationship.
I rest my diplomatic post here, and do hope u can get together.

[novationx]

I like how active NADEO is now here on the forums!

Ive seen 8 threads today with "bug fixed" "bug fixed" and with the hello planet#4 & Storm-up article I know what I can expect in the future! It makes me happy and it gives me the feeling that they are working hard.
Keep doing this Hylis & NADEO.

It makes the waiting easier. It takes away my negativity and gives me patience instead. Communication FTW!
I also read that you are planning multiple updates ( so we dont have to wait 1 year anymore ) and thats AWESOME.

I hope NADEO continues this path of working/communicating. Just look at that thread; its very positive.


About haters on the forum: Have moderators EDIT their comments ( "Too insulting. Read the Rules here.") and dont waste time. For me this is an easy solution. And dont forget that negativity is feedback too. Im not a fan of sadzaelot, but he makes some strong points & good suggestions.

Belgium vs USA, im off

[Hylis]

I am reading negative comments as well. And like I said I took some of sad even directly. But if they expect me to answer any other things than be positive first, they are wrong for them, and they are wrong toward other players that are here for the fun as well. It's as simple as that. And if more players would tell them, it would be easier to communicate for everybody here.

I rather hope for one hater to become positive than to use force. Usually, they prefer to leave when other people are positive. But sometimes, they lie and stay. But I still expect them to become positive one day. And if they are really strong, even to apologize for their past behavior. And it would be great for them much more than me.

[caspa]

Until you get past this "positive or nothing" idea that you have, there is pretty much no possibility for real critical and constructive discussion on this forum. As it stands, you will only accept feedback under your own terms.

[Suma]

Until you get past this "positive or nothing" idea that you have, there is pretty much no possibility for real critical and constructive discussion on this forum. As it stands, you will only accept feedback under your own terms.

... which is btw his right as forum maintainer. By theory reading the rules, to which you agreed at registration, could be a great idea right now.

As it stands it's impossible to explain you that "Protest", "this is a joke", "this is shit", etc is by no means "real critical and constructive discussion", but at best childish and poor behaviour. If you don't like it and don't believe it will get fixed - just leave and find something better!

Though I have no big doubts that you are not willing to understand this.

Beyond this starting point - bug reports, improvements and fixes happen in other threads here in the forum. The only point I agree is that Nadeo needed a little too long to get the next round of fixes on MP3 running.


And there is another point here, as again some guys complain about the lack of players:

Did you ever think about that this kind of threads is exactly what you need to convince potential new players not to install MP ?

[caspa]

... which is btw his right as forum maintainer. By theory reading the rules, to which you agreed at registration, could be a great idea right now.

Like I've said many times before, this is Hylis's game and his forums. He is free to do what he wants with it, we have no power to change yet. Yet this forum exists as a place for feedback. I understand that this forum is often littered with posts like "this is shit" but its easy to seperate those posts from the good ones. When these kind of words are thrown around in the same post as one with good feedback, its also easy to seperate the two. I'm not trying to defend the people who blindly attack nadeo without any explanation, but due to those kind of people, if you have any sort of negativity or swear word in your post it just gets disregarded... even if the rest of the post is valid. Where else are we supposed to go? What are we supposed to do if we disagree about something and feel strongly about it?

As it stands it's impossible to explain you that "Protest", "this is a joke", "this is shit", etc is by no means "real critical and constructive discussion", but at best childish and poor behaviour. If you don't like it and don't believe it will get fixed - just leave and find something better!

This is probably the worst thing that anyone can say. Its such a single minded attitude. Can I not like the game but at the same time have concerns and things that I don't like? Should I just not play the game if I disagree with a few certain aspects of it? Should we just stop playing the game when we don't like a certain aspect of it? No, we've invested enough time in it (for me 2 years that I'll never get back) that we can recognize and seperate the good from the bad. Ultimately its up to Hylis/Nadeo to take note - which they do not. What I'm trying to get across to Hylis/NadeoWhiteKnights is that this attitude is NOT conducive to a their "goal" of making the game as best as they can possibility get it. You NEED to include the negative with the positive. At the same time you NEED to listen to us, the consumers..

This game will never get better if you ignore valid criticism. Whats worse, is that you people don't realize that being mindlessly positive is just the same as being mindlessly negative. It doesn't matter which side of the coin you're on, being either of those things doesn't contribute, and doesn't help the game move forward in any way. Being positive about everything all the time only serves to reinforce Hylis and his team that their view is the way to go, when clearly (if you look at player numbers now compared to any other previous period in this game's history) there are no way near as many people playing this game as before, even when the game was in beta1 and the mechanics of the game were limited. (well, I wonder if there are actually more playing this game now versus when you could only play with a beta key).

Nothing good comes from having to tiptoe around, flowering your feedback with "positive" words all as a result of the paranoia that your feedback will be ignored if you dont. Its as if the concept of thinking critically doesn't exist on these forums and even worse, it doesn't exist in your head.

What fallacy are you gonna come at me with next?

And there is another point here, as again some guys complain about the lack of players:

Did you ever think about that this kind of threads is exactly what you need to convince potential new players not to install MP ?

I expect that any potential new players would look to make a decision on parting with 20$ based on the game's merits, not the discussion on the forums. No game is perfect, people will always discuss their ideas how to make it better and they will always discuss the things that they don't like. This is the only official medium we have for that. Ignoring feedback on percieved negativity isn't much different than putting your fingers in your ears and shouting "LALALA I CANT HEAR YOU".

I just think its diabolical that we have to tread so carefully on these forums, with regards to how we always have to be "positive" about everything. Why sugarcoat a turd?

[Suma]

What fallacy are you gonna come at me with next?

Nothing, because I neither have the time nor the interest to deal with your "emotions".

While we are here on page 8 without anything solved but waisting a lot of time, in other threads with more constructive people a couple of bugs got fixed e.g. just yesterday.

I'm off again.

[Hylis]

Caspa, I hope you take some of what have been said here.

When you say this "As it stands, you will only accept feedback under your own terms." It's wrong and it's negative. I said it many times, I read most of the posts, would they be negative or positive. It's just that I don't answer to negative ones because it's not a way to discuss. You can be positive and still express things that you dislike. It's the difference with judging.

In fact, I often say that players are nearly always right when it comes to feelings, frustrations & hopes. And I read as much as possible of it, and it helps me a lot to make the solutions myself. Because for solutions, priorites and judgements, they are are nearly always wrong, because they ignore most of the constraints and that they are not spending as much time as us on it. It's my job since years, and it includes long term strategy, technical constraint, priorities and a lot of others parameters.

And if you like to really would like to understand, like someone would explain some science that you know less, it's mainly because we are taking time to make the things as they should be. I said it many times that there were technical issues in B2 stuff that needed first to be consolidated. Maybe we would have kept more players to betray this, like some games would often do just to make more seducing graphics, like removing the customisation or make a quality netcode. For me, it's short term, and I am not here for easy short term. I am here to build a solid FPS for the years to come. And I know that it's simply our unbeatable ally to reach the players on the long run. And my trust of the situation comes from that, and a little from players that are still there in spite of saying they would leave already a long time ago

[UrinStein]

While we are here on page 8 without anything solved but waisting a lot of time, in other threads with more constructive people a couple of bugs got fixed e.g. just yesterday.

The question in this thread is: why do people get frustrated with this game and deinstall it?
Why do communities like SSM get frustrated with hosting Matchmaking servers and shut them down?

It is great that bugs are being fixed, everyone appreciates that. I guess Nadeo has been fixing bugs before as they do now, as they will be doing in the future, that's how Games work nowadays.

But the bugs themselves is not why people have left. That's what people in this thread are trying to say.
Who are you fixing bugs for, if there is no one around anymore in one year?

Maybe if the Developers had been more communicative with the players and SSM in particular, after there have been complaints about the MM-performance for weeks now, SSM would not have shut down their servers? People would not have complained all over the place about the MM maybe?

That is one of the problems a lot of people here see, apart from the general way Nadeo wants to take Shootmania, which they don't agree with.
Now you come here and tell me, we should stop discussing stuff and enjoy how great things are?

>.< f*******************

PS: What the hell is a forum for nowadays, if not for discussions?

PSS: It has been announced today that the MM-code has been rewritten, so yaaay, but one could have made that Thread a lot earlier and say: "We are going to rewrite the MM-code, period."

[sadzealot]

...a lot of excellent words brilliantly put together...