ManiaPlanet Server 2011-10-12

[Serpwidgets]

I'm running on x86_64 architecture too, but SciLinux 6.1 (equivalent to CentOS 6). My understanding is the dedicated .exe needs a fairly recent kernel, 2.6.15 or later; what is your kernel version?

It says it's 2.6.18-028stab092.1

Try the 'file' command on the .exe to see what that reports.

ManiaPlanetServer.exe: PE32 executable for MS Windows (GUI) Intel 80386 32-bit
That would explain it. Thanks! LOL

I didn't see anywhere that said there were two different exes and we have to rename the one to run it on loonix. It looks like I can delete the 12 MB windows exe now. I can probably dump all the nadeo tracks from the server too since I won't be needing them there.

There are also some places where "login" and "password" are ambiguous, because I have one for my player account, one for the maniaplanet server account, one for the ftp/ssh login on the remote server, and one for mysql. It would probably make more sense if they were clearly enumerated at the beginning and then referred to by A, B, C, D type identifiers.

I have the server up and running and I got xaseco2 running too, I think. I can't tell yet because I don't have any plugins installed, and I'm not sure what behavior I'm supposed to expect. The log file didn't show indications of problems though. I'll still need to figure out how to make it so it automatically runs when my webhost reboots the server machine, which I think they do daily. Also how to access the SuperAdmin thingy whenever I might need to. (Is that through a browser via http with a php script that got installed somewhere, or through the game itself, or what?)

[nocturne]

Wow... stop while you're ahead!!

First, the .exe is a windows executable, the file without an extension is a linux executable... It doesn't need an extension, so don't go adding one..

The login settings also make perfect sense, especially when the included documentation is read. You have your master account settings, basically the server login and pw you created on the MP player page along with the validation code you received when creating your MP account. Then you have the pre-defined ACL's used by external controllers, Super-Admin/Admin/User... Don't change the ACL names (as it says in the documentation), just the passwords! These are the logins that third-party tools will use to connect to your server via xmlrpc.

There is no tool/utility functionality in the default dedicated server software, you have to set it all up yourself. For a web applet, there are some hack versions of remotecp 4 floating around here on the forums. For a server controller, it should be easy enough to find ML, FAST, or Xaseco2...

[Serpwidgets]

Wow... stop while you're ahead!!

First, the .exe is a windows executable, the file without an extension is a linux executable... It doesn't need an extension, so don't go adding one..

It worked fine with an added extension. LOL. I haven't used a command line since DOS 6.22 and I've used loonix like twice ever.

The login settings also make perfect sense, especially when the included documentation is read.

That's a joke, right? There is no documentation in ManiaPlanetDedicated_2011-10-12.zip. NONE. Not even a stinking readme.txt with a link to some external source.

Then you have the pre-defined ACL's used by external controllers

I can assure you, sir, that my anterior cruciate ligaments are not used by external controllers.

There is no tool/utility functionality in the default dedicated server software, you have to set it all up yourself. For a web applet, there are some hack versions of remotecp 4 floating around here on the forums. For a server controller, it should be easy enough to find ML, FAST, or Xaseco2...

No idea what you're talking about. I just bought Canyon a month ago and just went to set up a server yesterday. I'm not a loonix user, it's what my webhosting is because I use php/mysql for my websites. What I was saying is that I don't know if there is something akin to autoexec.bat or a "startup folder" where I can tell it to run the TM server (with the appropriate parms) every time it boots up, so that when my webhost reboots that machine, my TM server isn't down forever until I can manually restart it. What I do know is that the sh and bat files included in TM and xaseco2 don't work, and I was unable to get them to work using the exact same thing that IS working if I type it directly into the command line via SSH. (I only got xaseco2 installed by typing the batch file's contents into the command line, too.)

For the "extras" I really don't care about being able to micromanage users or kick people or anything else. I just wanted to have it store the records for players... I figured if someone ever came to my server they might want to see the local records. I don't want to have most of the screen blocked out by useless garbage so nobody can see where they're driving, since I find it annoying on the servers I've played on.

[nocturne]

Eh, sry... I guess I've been around long enough to not remember back when I started out in TM, and couldn't figure out a $%#@ thing myself.. lol

Anyways, welcome to the wonderful world of TM!

First off, I take it you don't have much experience running a game server.. If you are running your setup on a webhost, I wouldn't expect to get too far before they block you -- game servers in general are resource hogging beasts, and it usually doesn't take long for a host to find who is draining power from their node. You can get away with it possibly, but just take into consideration that you could get your account disabled (in case you have any important sites you need to stay online). A VPS (or dedicated server) is different, though.. You usually have a set amount of resources, and if you violate them your processes crash. Contrastingly, it's not a big deal running a server off of your personal machine.. Just need to open ports on your router to your client IP, and possibly run mysql and php for a server controller.

I apologize about the documentation bit.. I hadn't realized that Nadeo didn't take the most basic effort to edit the old TMF readme for TM2. I can't say I'm surprised -- the game survives on the backs of the community alone, so they expect us to do it (hell, they even created a wiki). Also, you referenced trying to install Xaseco2, so I had assumed you at least attempted came across Xymph's QuickStart Guide For TM2. It may be too 'user-specific', badly formatted, (and honestly quite ugly); but there's a lot of great info Xymph's site, that I'm sure you should take a good read through.

As far as the tools/utilities... with a standard dedicated server, you get exactly what you set in the config and matchsetting files. You can play on the server under the specifications you configured. But, there's no way to change tracks, boot players, change settings, etc; without either using an external controller or changing the config files and restarting the server. If you just want a server with a set tracklist to race on, you don't need anything extra. But anything else (comparable to 'admin' ability), let alone records, rankings, and other features.. well, you have a bit more to work out.

[Xymph]

I have the server up and running and I got xaseco2 running too, I think. I can't tell yet because I don't have any plugins installed, and I'm not sure what behavior I'm supposed to expect.

If you didn't enable any plugins, you have an empty core which doesn't really do much. The plugins add the actual user (and admin) functionality.

I'll still need to figure out how to make it so it automatically runs when my webhost reboots the server machine, which I think they do daily.

The usual way for that are init.d scripts for dedicated and XAseco2, but those require root access to install such that they're automatically run at reboot.

Also how to access the SuperAdmin thingy whenever I might need to. (Is that through a browser via http with a php script that got installed somewhere, or through the game itself, or what?)

Server controllers like XAseco2 already provide a lot of the functionality that can be accessed via the XML-RPC port (with the SuperAdmin 'thingy'). For everything else you can use something basic like the RPC utilities, or external controllers like RemoteCP and ServerMania.

There is no documentation in ManiaPlanetDedicated_2011-10-12.zip. NONE. Not even a stinking readme.txt with a link to some external source.

I already gave you the link to a list of resources, one of those is the dedicated server readme. Yes, it's for classic TMU and thus outdated, but the basics still apply. It is indeed unfortunate that Nadeo didn't update it for TMF (although it was still included in those dedicated .zips), and again not for TM2C either, which is probably the reason why it was left out of the zip altogether.

Nadeo is working on a Wiki which will eventually include a section on the dedicated server though. And again, the Links section of my xaseco.org site provides a lot of reading material.

I just bought Canyon a month ago and just went to set up a server yesterday. I'm not a loonix user, it's what my webhosting is because I use php/mysql for my websites.

Well, operating a game server is not rocket science, but it isn't trivial either. So you better spend some time learning your way around the OS you apparently loathe.

What I was saying is that I don't know if there is something akin to autoexec.bat or a "startup folder" where I can tell it to run the TM server (with the appropriate parms) every time it boots up, so that when my webhost reboots that machine, my TM server isn't down forever until I can manually restart it.

See above.

What I do know is that the sh and bat files included in TM and xaseco2 don't work, and I was unable to get them to work using the exact same thing that IS working if I type it directly into the command line via SSH. (I only got xaseco2 installed by typing the batch file's contents into the command line, too.)

The .sh scripts are starting points that may need tuning to individual situations, which requires insight into the OS and in what you're trying to accomplish. Again, that requires study.
What problem did you experience with XAseco2.sh, exactly?

For the "extras" I really don't care about being able to micromanage users or kick people or anything else. I just wanted to have it store the records for players... I figured if someone ever came to my server they might want to see the local records. I don't want to have most of the screen blocked out by useless garbage so nobody can see where they're driving, since I find it annoying on the servers I've played on.

Opinions vary on whether such widgets are clutter or useful information. But the main XAseco2 distro shows only a few small panels. The big panel sets are produced by the Fufi Widgets or Records Eyepiece plugins, while various other plugins can also add the odd widget. If you don't enable any of those, a normal XAseco2 installation with most official plugins is no more intrusive than the game client's own HUD.

[Xymph]

I apologize about the documentation bit.. I hadn't realized that Nadeo didn't take the most basic effort to edit the old TMF readme for TM2.

Actually, it was the TMU readme, not even edited for TMF. Although Florent did provide an up-to-date list of command-line options a while after the TMF release.

I can't say I'm surprised -- the game survives on the backs of the community alone, so they expect us to do it (hell, they even created a wiki).

Yes, but they're filling it themselves, no user contributions (so far).

Also, you referenced trying to install Xaseco2, so I had assumed you at least attempted came across Xymph's QuickStart Guide For TM2. It may be too 'user-specific', badly formatted, (and honestly quite ugly); but there's a lot of great info Xymph's site, that I'm sure you should take a good read through.

Thanks... I think. What do you mean with "too 'user-specific'"?

As for its looks, it was never meant to win a Webbie. It's just a plain, functional, step-by-step procedure, intended to be as unambiguous as possible, and viewable in any browser (even lynx and w3m). That said, what would you do to improve it?

[nocturne]

Well, by user-specific I more or less referred to the not-quite-generic install procedure outlined.. Though, it does indeed give the gist of everything.

I understand the qualities of a simple yet elegant website (I used to pride myself in keeping my sites no more than a few kb, hehe); but it's just too basic. While I'd personally want some basic styling (a sans serif font specified at least, so it doesn't fall back on hard-to-read browser defaults); the least you could do would be managing the width of the document (by table or div) to be more userfriendly at different resolutions, as well as putting quoted commands into a more readable format (simple div with a gray background and 60% width would suffice). And the absolute aversion to CSS is a bit shortsighted -- defining a few basic styles such as list padding would make the site more friendly to those in any real browser; as well as maintain compatibility with any css-unfriendly browser.

But still, it's a great resource for those starting off in TM.. since you started it up, it's always been easy to simply direct nubs to the relevant quickstart and resources, and let them figure it out for themselves. I've always wanted to try to create a more indepth and intuitive equivalent myself, but never really had the time (plus, whenever I post a guide on any subject, I just get flooded with pm's and emails from users who fail to read the guide itself). The wiki is a good start, though..

[Serpwidgets]

Xymph, I understand your frustration, I've been there... through tutorials, forum posts, and books I have taught basic genetics to tens of thousands of people who want to understand and predict the results of breedings between reptiles. The thing is, there is nobody you can point to and say, "this person created reptiles this way and it's their fault that predicting offspring is tricky." With this game, there is someone whose fault it is.

Also, I spend a lot of time figuring out new stuff in real life. This is a game I bought it so I could relax for a bit and get away from it all, and then I run into the same thing. It's not just the dedicated server, it's the same experience with trying to figure out mediatracker and maniascript and skinning.

Your tutorial was somewhat helpful but it assumes many prerequisites that I didn't have and I suspect many others don't either. Just because someone hosts a website on a *nix box doesn't mean they are familiar with that OS's command line and syntax. Would you expect someone who uses a mac and hosts their website on a windows box to be familiar with DOS command line syntax? So that you understand where I'm coming from: I host my sites on that OS not because of the OS itself but because php/mysql come with it, it's necessary for my vBulletin forum software and that's what I used to build my own sites. (I have no feelings either way about loonix, I just think the name is funny.)

Anyway, I downloaded a 130 megabyte file from a forum post with no instructions in the post so I think it is entirely reasonable to expect something like a readme inside it. Even if all the readme contained was the URL to your tutorial or their wiki, that would have been way better than nothing. I spent the first several minutes just searching around the archive trying to figure out where the readme was. Apparently this is what Nadeo thinks of its paying customers.

To give you an example of what I thought would be reasonable to expect, the install for vBulletin consisted of uploading the contents of a zipfile via ftp (which any website owner would already be familiar with) and then entering a URL like "http://mydomain.com/forum/install.php" and then deleting a couple of files when it was done. Running a quake dedicated server on a LAN consisted of running the exe with a couple command line switches.

Maybe Nadeo has no expectation of ever gaining any new customers. Maybe they think all of their canyon customers will only be people who have previously been heavily involved with their previous titles. If that's what they wanted they're doing a good job because I'm quickly losing interest.

[om23]

nice talk guys.....
my intrest to the game trackmania2 varies a bit depending on nothing and O.T.T.
but I like the features, mostly thet one u can build own maps and play them on a server with someone.
would be cool to know if nadeo have this patented!?
IF there´ll NFS come out with map/track editor, this would be cool and NADEOs EGO would burn down.
I really disliked nadeo since TM2 is out, but I still like the concept of this game, not the sunrise remake!

one big point´ll come in the future, crapmania,shootmania,questmania,call it what u want,
but then it means nadeo have only +/- 25% of their recourses to TM2, rest to the others.
by seeing how much support they give to the community at this time,
it looks not good for the future, except nadeo crew´ll grow a bit

*hidden hint* thx not for not answering my posts *hidden hint off*
*oh pls, wait for a hint about a new version of dedicated in the old versions thread*

[Xymph]

Well, by user-specific I more or less referred to the not-quite-generic install procedure outlined.. Though, it does indeed give the gist of everything.

That's intentional. I believe to help newbies, making them guess what "<username>" etc. means or what they should fill in is best avoided, hence everything is spelled out with specific names. Later, when they've gained enough understanding about what they did, they can make their own choices. And it's primarily for Linux because that's my preferred OS for everything server related, and only much later I tried to put in a minimum of coverage for Winblows (see Serp, I can do that too ) but that's probably insufficient. So be it.

I understand the qualities of a simple yet elegant website (I used to pride myself in keeping my sites no more than a few kb, hehe); but it's just too basic. While I'd personally want some basic styling (a sans serif font specified at least, so it doesn't fall back on hard-to-read browser defaults); the least you could do would be managing the width of the document (by table or div) to be more userfriendly at different resolutions, as well as putting quoted commands into a more readable format (simple div with a gray background and 60% width would suffice). And the absolute aversion to CSS is a bit shortsighted -- defining a few basic styles such as list padding would make the site more friendly to those in any real browser; as well as maintain compatibility with any css-unfriendly browser.

You're making an assumption and I'm sure you're aware of the saying for that. I have no aversion to CSS, nor am I intentionally shortsighted (unintentionally, yes, sure).

The first incarnation of the guide page was done for TMN ESWC in 2007 when I simply didn't know much CSS, and certainly not its box model (margin, padding, etc). My goal was to get the info out there, with the time and knowledge I had at that time. The TMF and TM2 guides simply followed from that via that well-known copy/update process. They're also intended to be single files as they're included in the XAseco[2] zip files, and I didn't know in-line CSS at that time either. A lot of small reasons all collaborated such that the thought of styling the guides didn't even occur to me.

Since then, I've learned a ton of CSS at work (it's good for something ), but before you nobody suggested improvements to the guides' style, let alone complained about them. So I never allocated time and effort to that. Now that you did provide input, and I did acquire sufficient skills, it was easy enough to add some CSS per your suggestions. I just wish you had offered them sooner, so that your apparent frustration level hadn't grown to the point where you couldn't do so without snide remarks. But that's also an assumption.

Anyway, take a look, and if you or anyone else has further ideas for improvements, let me know.