Maniaplanet Forum

I have to agree with Nova here Hylis, your post is basically one giant defence for why certain things haven't been done, but this thread is not about what haven't been done, but how you guys approach certain things to begin with.

And I don't want to sound harsh, cruel or vicious, but I am, so that's how it'll come out:

It seems to be more the rule than the exception with Nadeo to do things the weird strange way to begin with, thus making many people complain about it so you guys have to spend lots of time working on already finished stuff to "improve" it.

Instead you should have done many things different to begin with and you would've saved yourself a ton of work that could've been spent more productively on making new stuff or polishing the few things you didn't do right to begin with.

Now you end up polishing most stuff because very little was done right to begin with.

And let's face it, why haven't acceleration and Y-scale been fixed ages ago? It's a fix that take noe employee 5 seconds to achieve, yet here we are.... (Your time-argument doesn't really hold up)

sadzealot wrote:I have to agree with Nova here Hylis, your post is basically one giant defence for why certain things haven't been done, but this thread is not about what haven't been done, but how you guys approach certain things to begin with.

And I don't want to sound harsh, cruel or vicious, but I am, so that's how it'll come out:

It seems to be more the rule than the exception with Nadeo to do things the weird strange way to begin with, thus making many people complain about it so you guys have to spend lots of time working on already finished stuff to "improve" it.

Instead you should have done many things different to begin with and you would've saved yourself a ton of work that could've been spent more productively on making new stuff or polishing the few things you didn't do right to begin with.

Now you end up polishing most stuff because very little was done right to begin with.

And let's face it, why haven't acceleration and Y-scale been fixed ages ago? It's a fix that take noe employee 5 seconds to achieve, yet here we are.... (Your time-argument doesn't really hold up)

This is what I was trying to say in my previous post.
"time" is a bad argument for your flaws. Your( = nadeo ) approach is wrong imo. Im sorry.

There are two things behind the way we work, and that you seem to underestimate here. One is still the time, I repeat, but about the constraints, it is also very very unlikely that you have all the reasons behind.

It's not because something would fix, short term, what is your desire to have a next step, that the more global approach, that is designed for long term, should be sacrificed.

I repeat that there are good things here and wishlists are valuable, but if your message is that you would do a better job than us, then there is something wrong here. We know about a ton of constraints, about our future goals, are spending tens of hours everyweek since 10 years+, are taking into account much more diverse type of requests.

You can easily say what are your bad feelings, where the system is causing you pain, like the lack of motivation for the ladder etc. You can illustrate with an example of what you would like, but you can not say that it's the best solution and that we are doing it wrong. You are lacking so much information about the technical architecture, future goals, developement priorities, intermediary steps of development situation etc.

The day some players here will understand that they are not here to give lessons, but constructively and positively express their frustrations, desires & wishes, it will be better, and more cool, really.

sorry but having a system broken for the next two years untill it eventually makes sense with your secret "globabl approach", "future goals" and "reasons" might not be the best way ...

(for example the ladder system)

Sorry, but it is very important to have "global approach", "future goals" and "reasons". It is the same when you design a title pack, even if it is much less complicated than to make the game himself. And sometimes it's difficult for the title pack creator to take decision because he didn't know what will be the future features.

So big +1 with Hylis post

Even if, after years of TM practice, I can have a different opinion on a few subjets, like Manialink

gaertner wrote:sorry but having a system broken for the next two years untill it eventually makes sense with your secret "globabl approach", "future goals" and "reasons" might not be the best way ...

(for example the ladder system)

+1
Hylis, I hope you understand what Gaertner means & that your argument isnt so good.
Maniaplanet will be awesome in 2years. More awesome in 5years... etc etc... But that does not mean it must be "bad" now?
---------------------------------------------------------------
OK,
This topic is not about:
- Who can do his job the best ( NADEO )
- Who has more experience ( NADEO )
- Who is right or wrong ( Nobody )
- Was Novationx polite enough ( Yes )
- Offending NADEO ( Nobody )

The forum users dont know anything about how NADEO works. I have no idea about developement, priorities, coding, netcode, marketing,... I admit that making a game is veeeeery hard. I have no idea how I would do it. You are way better than all of us & I respect/thank NADEO to make this game. But does that mean I can not post what is wrong? All I (we?) am doing is trying to help because I love Shootmania.
My post, again, is not to offend anyone, so please dont answer that you have more exp or that you're better at your job. For me that is just OFF-TOPIC.

NADEO has 15-20y developing experience.
I have 15years of gaming ( only FPS ) experience, thus I use this experience only to help you. My post had maaaany constructive arguments, I was polite & I explained a lot.

My first post is to point-out/issinuate that, maybeeeeee, NADEO should consider doing things a bit differently and the only reply we always get is about "time" & "you have no idea".


Some examples again :

Example 1:
Every update in the last 15months made Shootmania better & better & better. = GOOD.
But, if I was in control, I would have made sure that we have a good BASIS to start. That players are happy with what they get NOW ( and not in 2years ) and only add néw things when the BASIS is good. (The entire manialink system is , imo, bad for the community.) Doing things like this isnt ignoring the greater goal or the long-term plan. Its simply improving it, Hylis.

Its better to give players something good you have, than only long-term promises we can dream about for 2years.

Example 2:
Everybody likes maniastars, but why didnt anyone @NADEO say " Lets fix this ranking first!! Lets improve these clublinks first!! Lets give the players motivation to play first!! Lets fix this chat right now before we do anything else!!" ? These maniastars arent priority when you OPEN your eyes and see what else urgently needs to be done. Its stuff like this that makes me unhappy.
Im also affraid for the new update : Maybe we will get new Ninja-stars & Teleport Block in stead of "MOTIVATION" which is way more important. After the motivation we should start adding new features to the gameplay.
This last sentence sounds stupid, but this is the general thought of my post and how I think/feel about NADEO

I know this sounds vague, but I explained a lot in my first post. So one last time, it is my friendly advice to NADEO to consider my first post and really take it seriously and do not take it as an OFFENSE or THREAT. Im only tryin to help.


PS : I know about the wishlist thread. But this is a different wish about changing approach & not about which features we want first.

novationx wrote: Example 2:
Everybody likes maniastars, but why didnt anyone @NADEO say " Lets fix this ranking first!! Lets improve these clublinks first!! Lets give the players motivation to play first!! Lets fix this chat right now before we do anything else!!" ? These maniastars arent priority when you OPEN your eyes and see what else urgently needs to be done. Its stuff like this that makes me unhappy.

Maybe it is not the same person in Nadeo who is doing this things. Maybe stars are easy and fast to make but other features take a long time. We can't decide the priorities because we don't have the knowledge to decide.

But of course you can write : "i like this and not this". But when you write Nadeo should do that and not this i can't follow you. Time is also something important even if you don't care about it. Only Nadeo can make the choice. For example I am only interested by TM and you by SM. So, only Nadeo could make a choice between TM or SM list of priorities

But maybe it's time for Hylis to write a maniablog article to explain a bit more his strategy (it was a bit "short" at PGW)

meuh21 wrote:

novationx wrote: Example 2:
Everybody likes maniastars, but why didnt anyone @NADEO say " Lets fix this ranking first!! Lets improve these clublinks first!! Lets give the players motivation to play first!! Lets fix this chat right now before we do anything else!!" ? These maniastars arent priority when you OPEN your eyes and see what else urgently needs to be done. Its stuff like this that makes me unhappy.

Maybe it is not the same person in Nadeo who is doing this things. Maybe stars are easy and fast to make but other features take a long time. We can't decide the priorities because we don't have the knowledge to decide.

But of course you can write : "i like this and not this". But when you write Nadeo should do that and not this i can't follow you. Time is also something important even if you don't care about it. Only Nadeo can make the choice. For example I am only interested by TM and you by SM. So, only Nadeo could make a choice between TM or SM list of priorities
)

You are absolutely right and I know what you mean.
Also I wasnt saying 'if they didnt do the maniastars, then the game would be perfect now cuz everything else is fixed"
It was merely 1 simple example to make myself better understood.
And in the end its NADEO who takes all the decisions/choices... But then again... we have our wishlish-thread and I dont know if you read all 40pages, but a lot of whats in it is also in my first post.

Btw, I never said time wasnt important or that I dont care about it. Its how they spend their time that is wrong( SM & TM). Dont you see the difference?

novationx wrote:Its how they spend their time that is wrong( SM & TM). Dont you see the difference?

I see and I think nobody would like to read this about his work... And I prefer to respect the Nadeo work

A small team cant divide in too 2 seperate games at once.

A big team can as they have the knowledge.

For instance a Graphics artist cant develop for instance a dedicated server.

The dividation is that some things are handled by others.

We do not know who handles what. So thats where time comes in place.