Maniaplanet Forum

magnetik wrote:okay server are now with correct points limit (20) and only mania actu pack map.

May I ask why you remove the official NADEO mappack from the official NADEO MatchMaking lobbyservers...?

TheM wrote:

magnetik wrote:okay server are now with correct points limit (20) and only mania actu pack map.

May I ask why you remove the official NADEO mappack from the official NADEO MatchMaking lobbyservers...?

Because the Nadeo map-pack contains some really boring maps that aren't used in tournaments. The official matchmaking system should always use the current tournament maps

They may seem boring to you, but I'm not sure the ESL maps are especially suited for a beginner experience in Elite.
And believe it or not, many players who never played Elite before will likely begin this mode with a matchmaking match.

Just my 2 cents.

It's also surprising to see TheCastle2 in the ESL mappack, when I follow your logic.

I've tried too many times to demonstrate that non tournament maps aren't necessary bad maps and are worth playing (See Cuba's maps, for example) but I'm tired to continue this debate.

PapyChampy wrote:I've tried too many times to demonstrate that non tournament maps aren't necessary bad maps and are worth playing (See Cuba's maps, for example) but I'm tired to continue this debate.

PapyChampy wrote:They may seem boring to you, but I'm not sure the ESL maps are especially suited for a beginner experience in Elite.
And believe it or not, many players who never played Elite before will likely begin this mode with a matchmaking match.

What? You shouldn't pick maps if they are badly designed and doesn't reward good play. Might be good for the beginner, but horrible for everyone else.

PapyChampy wrote:It's also surprising to see TheCastle2 in the ESL mappack, when I follow your logic.

Yeah, TheCastle2 might not be the best map (still better than v1 though) but it's 10x better than Excursion/WindOfChange. Use the MainaActu map-pack and make most people happy!

Mooon wrote:What? You shouldn't pick maps if they are badly designed and doesn't reward good play. Might be good for the beginner, but horrible for everyone else.

Mooon wrote:Yeah, TheCastle2 might not be the best map (still better than v1 though) but it's 10x better than Excursion/WindOfChange. Use the MainaActu map-pack and make most people happy!

Do you know to whom you're talking like this? You better excuse...
Papy is one of the creators of the Nadeo maps, and he is doing great
Many maps are just examples of what can be done, to give ideas or hints how some block constellations are meant to be used.

But you seem not want to listen or not to understand.
Let's try again:
Nadeo wants the game to be playable for everyone, starting with easy maps on beginners servers.
If you're too good, you won't get any reward anymore anyways there.
So the choice of maps is done according to this, and not necessarily to one individual player's needs

If you think the maps are bad, just don't play on those "ugly beginners" servers, and better try to create your own maps and let others decide how good those are then

This is something I never really saw people do in TM, and it saddens me to see people do it in SM. Comparing maps, as if you have to pick one over the other. And to ridicule the originator of a map and credit the ripoff as if its better. That's extremely rude.

Mooon wrote:What? You shouldn't pick maps if they are badly designed and doesn't reward good play.

I'm pretty sure everyone can agree on that one. And that's why I was very surprised by the maps that made it into the ESL map pack. In my opinion, there are more fun and better designed maps that could have been chosen. And I'm not just generally saying that. I've actually played maps that I liked more. Many of them have been Nadeo maps. Many are so-called "hipster" Nadeo maps that never got much gameplay in competitions. They are often very experimental in their layout and make for a lot of fun. Others are maps that can be found on MX or maps made by friends who are experimenting with the new blocks and trying different layouts.

However, what constitutes a "good map" is, and will always be, highly subjective. How maps play varies from person to person. Everyone looks for different things in a map or places importance on different things.

What staggers my mind is that people are so stuck on playing just a handful of maps. There's already 548 Elite maps on Mania Exchange, and 1000s more waiting in the wings. I've played dozens made by friends that have not posted them to MX yet. Granted, only a percentage of these maps on MX would meet with general acceptance, but it's still more than what people are generally playing now.

I play new maps every time I play Elite, and it offers a very fun experience. I think people need to get out of the mindset of only playing the same few maps whenever they play Elite. Also, Elite isn't ONLY for pro players. Yeah, it was during the alpha and some during the beta, but a lot of other skill levels have since discovered it. The name suggests it's only for pro players, but there's a lot of fun to be had in Elite for casual players as well.

It's understandable that a map pack is created for a few competitions and everyone has a chance to train on those maps, to have equal opportunity to learn the maps and make it fair for everyone. But for the same pack to be used for more than a month is just insane. There's too many possibilities in SM. We should embrace those possibilities.

Okay, that's my rant for today.

In my opinion, the Nadeo Maps were good and they should have stayed where they've been.

It just really makes me angry to see tatar's "mod" of TheCastle on servers. It's just TheCastle with little mods, which were totally unnecessary.
I agree, some of the maps really are good from the Mappack, but I prefer the classic ones. A beginner can keep the maps in mind and practise on them. Too bad, if you add some "pro maps" to the matchmaking server.. One of the last ways to play the original maps.

And just because it's a "ESL Mappack", it doesn't necessarily mean it's good either.

I somehow feel bad for the elite players who only play the same official esl maps all the time, they're missing out on the fun.

TMarc wrote:Do you know to whom you're talking like this? You better excuse...
Papy is one of the creators of the Nadeo maps, and he is doing great

I'm sorry if I offend you but it wasn't personal, just my opinion of the maps. And as you say:

TMarc wrote:Many maps are just examples of what can be done, to give ideas or hints how some block constellations are meant to be used.

I completely agree with this, they feel a lot like examples. This doesn't speak for why they should be used on the main match making servers though.

TMarc wrote:But you seem not want to listen or not to understand.

I'm always open for discussion so it must be my understanding of the map choices. The only reason i've heard for using the Nadeo map-pack is:

TMarc wrote:Nadeo wants the game to be playable for everyone, starting with easy maps on beginners servers

I don't agree with you on this though. Excursion I can somewhat see as easier just because the map is really big and slows down the game-play greatly, and by that losing everything that is fun. This is in my opinion not a very good first impression of the game if the player is a beginner.

I understand that you won't change your view of the maps, so the best thing to do would probably be to have a beginner server with the Nadeo map-pack. Use a point-limit so people with better rank than ~8000 can't join
(but I doubt this would work at the moment, there are just too few people on the match making servers. Look at the 10k+ MM-server, it's a ghost town)