Planets

[Hylis]

Masleyko & Laurens, read the post above please
http://forum.maniaplanet.com/viewtopic. ... 88#p122388

[masleyko]

sorry mate .. i`m physicist .. i need reasons and logic .. that post defies that ..
i dont see any point and need for such a systems like Economical points in game like Trackmania 2 .. its a racing game why on earth would i do else craps in it .. i wanna race in it thats all i need , its cool when i can make custom data but why the hell i need planets, even economical points . or so .. in original TMU/F i have never used single copper until i joined clan and payed for ads .. but i was racing on servers with lot of ppl and all was working nothing distracted me from racing i made lot of friends and so on . thats why the game was so great success for Nadeo even .. and still is.
now i`ll tell you my logical reasoning of what will happen .
lets say main point of this is get players more involved and that would mean more ppl will buy game with options to change almost enything and exchange it
they create such a system like EPs are .. and that system logically must distract players from being in game for main reason ..what is racing .. that will work fine for a while because its new so ppl will be interested but that will mean less ppl on servers .
then those who would like to come back to racing look at servers where are few ppl only cause others are doing shits or left game completely what will lead to even more massive leaving s.. further u can easily see where it ends .. in a result completely opposite to main goal of company.
easy to do short termed shit preffered preffered before harde rmore worky long term evolution into what players want .. resulting logicaly in something what players didnt want
HYLIS are economical points something what gamers really need and want , do you really think someone will envy how much planets or EP others have ? in my opinion will be much better if you for example focus on things which will racing make more smooth , or servers optimizing , or making and runnning of server easy even for ppl who are not very advanced pc users..
reason for buying TM2 for me was that tmnations and then forever version was excellent racing .. global racing with ranking and all ppl having same conditions...its a game played in ESWC ffs .
but now this craps you are putting in are distracting all from main game point .. racing ..
Please .. answer only these two question > Does the game and its players need and wanted such a thing or its something you made up based on nothing with game ?
Do You really think it will help game more than for example including advanced server creation and managing tools in game ?
I havnet met any single player in TM2 which think its fine, needed or usefull system . for most of racers planets /coppers doesnt have any importance .. they are racing ..you know its racing game right ? (same for shootmania just exchange race with shoot )
but i have met many ppl wanting to race with friends, wanna form clans, have lot of competition , promote their clan to the top, create own server make it popular , but they have no programmer in clan they cant even make server run and settiing XASECO or other controller is far beyond their reaches.. so they just give up and leave the game. and in better case they just switch back on TMNF/TMUF and have fun there ..
FYI i`m saying this not only cause i dont agree with it but cause i loved a great game bought its second version (TM2) and instead of racing , my lovegame is changing into crap.
THINK ABOUT THAT.

[eyebo]

I've been reading all the posts in this topic as they've been happening. Thanks to Hylis for trying to explain all this.

Sadly though, I still don't really understand the reason behind all of this. I understand how it works. But I'm still left with the question of "Why?"

I don't understand why we need EPs in the first place. I mean inflation is bad in real life. But why is it bad in-game? And, is it even real?

I never experienced any problem with Coppers in TMUF. I never saw anyone over-charging for stuff on their ManiaLinks. And if I had, I just wouldn't have bought from them. Simple as that. The prices I paid for skins in 2008 on MLs were roughly the same as the prices I still see on MLs now.

What was wrong with the way Coppers were used and distributed in TMUF? Why does this new system have to be implemented? Was the monetary system in TMUF abused? Was it that Coppers lost their value over time because there were too many? I don't really think the abundance of Coppers caused much, if any, lack of value. If anything was to blame for a lack of value in Coppers, it was that you could get most anything that you wanted for free. Car skins, tracks, etc... via the use of 3rd party sites.

For the most part, the only thing I paid for with Coppers the last few years in TMUF was Nadeo services. Ladder servers, buddy slots, maniahome subscription, maniateam, etc.

That's all changed in ManiaPlanet though. I've started using Planets on player's MLs to buy lots of car skins from ManiaLinks. Plus, with the advent of Packs I now pay for content that is included in track and replay files... skins and mods.

Hylis is always asking us to express our feelings about things and not try to provide the answers or fixes ourselves. So I'm going to provide some of my feelings about this topic of Planet to EP conversion.

I think the problem I'm having with this system of converting Planets to EPs is that EPs are still perceived to be completely worthless. So instead of the conversion of Planets to EPs feeling like putting money in a bank... it feels more like those Planets were taken by force and flushed down the toilet. It feels like this is done only to ensure that I don't get too rich. Maybe it's not the purpose of the system, but it's how I feel when it happens. And I still get that gut feeling, even after reading all the replies in this topic.

So what will EPs actually be used for? How do they directly benefit me? I understand we'll possibly be able to convert some back to Planets someday? But then why convert them to EPs in the first place? EPs must have a tangible benefit to me beyond seeing who has the most.

Maybe some of these are "questions for later" as Hylis often likes to say.

I only fear that later will be too late.

If I were more involved these days I'd be even more upset about this. As it is, I feel a sort of vicarious pain for other members of the community. It can be very distressing and demotivating to suddenly lose some of the Planets that you're holding onto for your clan or for yourself. You might be planning to use these Planets for various events or server upgrades. And then you suddenly start losing them as they get converted to EPs. And this starts recurring every month. It doesn't take a genius to see that you'll eventually lose nearly all your Planets when they are converted to EPs. Okay, maybe not all your Planets, but enough to make a serious dent.

This is enough to demotivate me from ever thinking to use them as a prize for events ever again. And if I hosted a ManiaLink, the Planets I make from that ManiaLink will eventually get mostly converted to EPs. So why should I keep my ManiaLink open? What incentive do I have if the Planets I make from selling things on it are converted into EPs which I can't use for anything? What about ManiaLotto and things like that? What incentive do I have to win Planets if they are just going to be converted and become unusable to me?

I mean, I will personally keep playing because I enjoy the actual feeling of driving and building tracks. It's at the core of why I play TM.

But this matter with Planets and EPs is an unneeded distraction. It feels overly complicated and unfair. Perhaps we should just let it happen and trust that it'll all work out in the end. That doesn't seem to be in our nature though.

It feels as though Nadeo is trying to discourage activity in the game. I know it's not true. I mean, that's absolutely ridiculous. I know that's obviously not the goal. But I can't shake that feeling when I look at how Planets and EPs are currently handled.

Maybe the plans for the future see the use of EPs for many things. I don't know. But I only hope it's not too late and I hope that I don't lose too many of my fellow players in the interim.

Thanks for letting me express my feelings about this.

Now I can go back to ignoring this issue and waiting for Valley.

[Hylis]

Eyebo, you said that you have read all, but have you read the fact that you can convert back EP to Planets according to a floating tax?

Masleyko, I think I am logic enough. Since you bring it, my studies: http://bit.ly/ROchE4

"Does the game and its players need and wanted such a thing or its something you made up based on nothing with game ? "

Yes, it is needed from my point of view, from where I can see the economical values. Do players want that, it depends, since it is made to make a good balance into the economy. I want to have a better recognition of players who are economically active and efficient, which the EP are a good step for. I also want the creation of players to avoid being under-valuated through hyper-inflation of the economy. If you say today that your map is worth 10 planets, and that we give 100000 planets to everybody, how can't you understand that you map will have a lesser value after that? So, in order to keep your map as a constant price, we defined an average wealth and keep it like this thanks to EP conversion.

"Do You really think it will help game more than for example including advanced server creation and managing tools in game ? "

I have discussions with a lot of tools that are internally designed, such as ManiaPub, ManiaHost, ManiaLive, ManiaFlash and ManiaHome for example. Providing a space where contribution starts to exist more than through simply 'bank' account is not only better in a human kind perspective imho, but I believe it can drive the economy even to be more dynamic through safer and stronger rules for it.


You are talking to me like if I was incapable to being logic or seeing how good TM was with coppers. Do I have to remember it to you that I made the economical system on the previous TM and started to work on it in 2006?

anyway, if you can express yourself better than that

easy to do short termed shit preffered preffered before harde rmore worky long term evolution into what players want

then we may have a better discussion, so I can better understand your sadness, mister the physicist and to see if it is really logic or not to be.

[Omnixor]

If you say today that your map is worth 10 planets, and that we give 100000 planets to everybody, how can't you understand that you map will have a lesser value after that?

if people earn planets themselves, shouldn't that be the point of having currency at all? I mean, people earn money, and the more money they have, the more things they can buy. with how it is now, people can't earn more money and can't save them - they have almost same amount all the time.

[TMarc]

The problem is that there is not always a balance between earning planets e.g. by driving, selling items, providing servers and tournaments, etc.
if to many people earn to fast to many planets, then the value of purchasable items will decrease rapidly, or the price tag wil increase rapidly.

I think this is what I have understood: the EP is a try to maintain a healthy balance.

[Omnixor]

looks like this maintaining is not that healthy either, you simply lose all planets you earned last month.

p.s. *too, *too, *too.

[Hylis]

Omnixor, have you read that you can convert your EP back to planets?

[Omnixor]

link?

[kripkee]

link?

http://forum.maniaplanet.com/viewtopic. ... 88#p122388