[POLL] Microjumps are good for the game. Dont remove B2

[Hylis]

b2 wj depends on the geometry behind the visual aspect of the walls: on the edge of the triangles that are going through the wall etc. How can you say it is not random (unless you learn a map for 1000 hours maybe)

I had a feedback on the randomness of it from defrag/obstacle players and had to fix it. You should be happy of us taking care of removing true random factor like this.

[Alexey85]

[...]You can just ask a player who is able to do it. Or make a post on this forum so NADEO can help you with it. Instead of figuring it out for 3months by urself.[...]

I didn't even know I was doing it in a wrong way, I thought I am slow and lack dexterity. I actually thought I will be never able to do it and will always have disadvantage at least in Joust.

[...]a technique for minijump? hit the mouse key only slightly maybe.. i don't think that's rocket science.. and it's also not random[...]

Well it was the actual problem to "hit the mouse key only slightly". While I couldn't do it, I was clicking the button by moving my finger only. When I learned MJ, I added a slight move of the palm. This move was not obvious to me, I don't even know how I came up with it, so yeah, it was a random discovery that might not have happened at all. I am not saying that MJ itself is random, it is not.

[Hylis]

NukingFoob registered today on the forum, posted here first, with a login that describe the spirit we have not.

1. you all have been noob one day.
2. many are still beaten by better teams here.

If you are not noob anymore, it shows that the game is not for only for noob, since you can still be better.
If you still are, GL HF noobs then

[dreammyw0w]

NukingFoob registered today on the forum, posted here first, with a login that describe the spirit we have not.

He is a cplay member, very active obstacle player & good at Elite. He took the time to register ( even tho he never posts ) just because this is an important topic and he also has a vote. He has this name for more than 2years . Its just a name.

[Hylis]

that is still not our spirit, anyway

and as an obstacle player, I am surprised that he is for the b2, since the walljumps are randoms ôO

Oh, and this is your buddy that you invited to answer a poll where the question is trying to give the good answer for you? Not our spirit as well (but I can go and fetch some friends if you like ^_^)

Don't get me wrong: I think it is positive to debate, and I think we had a long one on MJ already. I think you are trying to do it well 'most of the time' You even brought the fact that to avoid the spam was a good thing, I think.

But for the future of the game, it's better to remove the randomness of walljump, default of micro jump, add the elements of the evolved gameplay and have everybody on the same one. I also said that B2 walljump were funnier, but broken. I am not here to lie to myself or make a bad game. I have much more responsability than that

[dreammyw0w]

Hylis you do realise u just offended me?
I would never ask people to vote for something if they dont agree.
Thank you to think im like this . However, im not like this at all. You should know better.

Besided this topic is made cuz I love this game & because I believe this was needed. This is the correct spirit, no?
Besides, its his opinion. You can be 'surprised' as much as you want. His vote counts.

Also this topic is not about spirits or inviting friends but about B2.

[Hylis]

I did not say that you asked him to vote for what you think should be voted. I am ok to admit that it could mean this because I am talking of 'friends' but maybe you pointed out this poll to him since he never registered, and that you knew before he was thinking like you. And it is not a strong accusation at all. Even more that people that are not here count as well to me. I think you can admit that your 'question' was bias: "[POLL] Microjumps are good for the game. Dont remove B2" Asking in a poll is better to try to stay neutral if you really look for the truth.

Keeping random moves (as Kryw is saying) spliting the gameplay is not a good thing. We kept it for the ongoing competitions, but the more the time is going on, the less we will have reason to keep it (and it is work to always keep it by the way, if I rarely see people thankful for doing it)

[MuNgLo]

that is still not our spirit, anyway

and as an obstacle player, I am surprised that he is for the b2, since the walljumps are randoms ôO

Oh, and this is your buddy that you invited to answer a poll where the question is trying to give the good answer for you? Not our spirit as well (but I can go and fetch some friends if you like ^_^)

Don't get me wrong: I think it is positive to debate, and I think we had a long one on MJ already. I think you are trying to do it well 'most of the time' You even brought the fact that to avoid the spam was a good thing, I think.

But for the future of the game, it's better to remove the randomness of walljump, default of micro jump, add the elements of the evolved gameplay and have everybody on the same one. I also said that B2 walljump were funnier, but broken. I am not here to lie to myself or make a bad game. I have much more responsability than that

We (as in many players from the community) have time and time again tried to explain to you what makes B3 wj so bad. The only think you focus on are that the code implementation are using geometry and results in what can be perceived as randomness. The fact is that B2 wj allows for so much more skillbased gameplay. Once you learn jumps the randomness disappear. It all depends on knowledge on how to do it and where it's possible.
There are so many important gameplay moves in Elite that will just be removed if you play with B3 and that's the issue.
There is probably nobody that argues that more consistency in WJ are bad but removing all finesse and skill is a bad thing. What would be good is for Nadeo to actually understand that B3 wj are extremely limited and need work if you want to phase out B2 completely.
Stop obsessing about B2 being random and bad and understand that what people object about is that B3 wj takes away so much skill and options.
An important point is that by forcing B3 wj's, as they are today, you would remove a big part of what makes the game fun.
In fact I would go as far as to say that maps that don't encourage great movement are way more boring then those that don't have any nice jumps on them.
Take maps like crossroads and archways. Both maps most players should be familiar with. Both maps also have next to emphasis on wj. Even a map like Ironfist have so much more to offer players whenit comes to movement and thats with all defenders standing still.


Just to show what's possible in B2 with practice and impossible in B3.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNthqYLO4S8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uR5CjFUyHX0

It is also laughable that you don't want people to express their opinion on this forum if they don't agree with yours. Come on.

[testyrabbit]

Besided this topic is made cuz I love this game & because I believe this was needed. This is the correct spirit, no?
Besides, its his opinion. You can be 'surprised' as much as you want. His vote counts.

Dreamy, it is clear that nobody's vote counts besides Hylis's, and despite us trying to tell him why b2 should remain the competitive mode, he refuses to understand. Even though there is a 68/32 split in favor of b2, it will still be removed from the game. Despite this game being an amazing esport, there have been no marketing attempts to grow the community, and the developers refuse to listen to the competitive players, who are the only ones who even play this game. If this change takes place, ESWC will happen and then all of the top teams will move to another game. It is incredibly frustrating watching you run this game into the ground. ESWC even said, "Because one day, it will be the first digital discipline of The Olympic Games." Listen to the players Hylis, or else the few players you have left will leave and then you will have nobody to ruin the game for.

[sadzealot]

Keeping random moves (as Kryw is saying) spliting the gameplay is not a good thing. We kept it for the ongoing competitions, but the more the time is going on, the less we will have reason to keep it (and it is work to always keep it by the way, if I rarely see people thankful for doing it)

I agree, having 2 different settings is terrible, however, you're saying here that you've always worked to keep B2 settings and you're not getting enough thanks for that.

Your english is awful in those sentences, but that is basically what you are saying (if it's not, please clarify).

But that's simply not true. You decided a long time ago to remove B2 and move forward with B3. You stated that as soon as B3 came out. And ever since you've added new stuff that has solely been added to B3 and B2 has been kept out of the loop.

To me, this is not working to keep it. To me, this is a decision being made to remove it.

Anyways, good luck with the future of the game, I don't see it lasting very long in terms of competitiveness unless money is thrown around. Because one thing is sure, it won't be played competitively much longer because people like and enjoy the game and gameplay if B2 is removed and nothing is done with the current state of B3.

EDIT

Thought I'd throw this in here for Hyllis and the rest of NAdeo to read:

http://www.duelcraft.net/player-interview-winz/

We have been invited to defend our title but I think I’d rather not play as that game depresses and frustrates me. I never liked it and played it because there was really easy money to be won on it. It was/is a financial opportunity to take, I learned from my mistake on Painkiller and decided to take it this time.
It’s in my opinion impossible to like that game as a Quake player, it is inferior in EVERY way and is an insult to esports, to what FPS used to be and to what FPS should be in a competitive environment.

Something to think about when you now take away B2 which the current competitive players would like to keep.