The Titlepacksystem - The False Prophet

Discuss everything related to Maniaplanet.

Moderator: English Moderator

User avatar
TGYoshi
Posts: 795
Joined: 15 Mar 2011, 16:59

Re: The Titlepacksystem - The False Prophet

Post by TGYoshi »

meuh21 wrote:..
You seem to fail to realize most of the things are technically possible without titles as well (even solo campaigns), which are elaborated upon in this topic. You can share objects by embedding references in files (show a dialog at solo map launch you need objects xyz or when joining a server...), which is more convenient to the player. Scripts can be ran without titlepack already (although half of the features are disabled if not in a titlepack because Nadeo wants to force titlepacks upon us or so).

Titlepacks have their technical reasons (sharing content), but there are alternative ways which are MUCH more user-friendly and inviting.
=3
TheM
Posts: 1379
Joined: 15 Jun 2010, 14:30
Location: Uden, Noord-Brabant, Netherlands
Contact:

Re: The Titlepacksystem - The False Prophet

Post by TheM »

meuh21 wrote:*snip*
Even if a part of the community is lazy and can't take a little bit of altitude to see a whole picture of the wonderful Maniaplanet ( :thx: to Nadeo)
You are right that a lot is possible with ManiaPlanet and that is very nice!
I feel people should try the other way round: don't be too naive, get down to the ground and see the reality as it currently is in the games: you'll see that aside from the nice creative features, the games lack one important thing: players.

Creative features are nice, they are part of ManiaPlanet, but without players to make stuff for, it doesn't help much, does it...?

I understand you might not expect these posts from a moderator, but I feel/hope that I can express my own views here :)
Global moderator | Dutch moderator | Laddermoderator | ManiaWiki moderator
Server Manager/webmaster of Smurfen.net, join us on Canyon, Valley and Royal!
ESL (Game) Staff Head for TrackMania (Stadium, Canyon and Valley).
Hylis
Nadeo
Nadeo
Posts: 3933
Joined: 14 Jun 2010, 11:58

Re: The Titlepacksystem - The False Prophet

Post by Hylis »

TGYoshi, Meuh is writing things that are so right on the spot, it's incredible how big is the gap of understanding!

It's probably a loss of time to explain why a solution with locator would be a fail, but I can try just to help you realize:
* players, in a title, should be capable to disallow downloads (for moderation purpose, age rating, or simply the lack of bandwith & price link to it in many places in the world)
* players should be capable to easily manage the space they want to use (if you have to download 200 MB to play a map each time you enter a server, because your cache is too full/too small, or that you don't remember if it was on your disk at home or at work, it's annoying not to have a proper install/uninstall system like the most known operating systems. A locator is like a URL and your don't install and manage your stuff online, but you can't really have big websites with 200 MB for a page to reach.
* bandwith management for hosting side: players should be capable to host serves easily. What if the required bandwith explodes. Also, who will host the locator made data? who will check all the integrity of the data? the rights of the data?

But in the end, it's even more for a bigger reason that I am using the Title system, it's because when I connect to Stadium, I want to play Stadium, and not a car that drives 2 times faster or whatever else modification that became popular there. There is an information layer that is link with titles: news, updates, choices, debates, forums and else. It would be less efficient if it was per server and I think the world of gaming is divided by games and our desire is to follow this division while being capable to help it to unite.

Now, I already said
1. When there is a frustration, there is often solution, it's just that it's often more complicated than the suggested one.
2. When there is a solution, it can take time to do it.
3. When we do it, it's difficult to say that we are going to make it, or then we can not change of solution or timing.
4. We have some major element of the solution to be revealed at the demo release
1. I understand your frustration
2. Rome was not built in a day
3. I can not reveal our solution
4. But it will be done at demo release in July

If you believe that your solution is better, or that title are bad, you have the right. But if you believe that it's without entering the real interesting questions like some I have raised here, please avoid to conclude. Frustration can not be denied, solutions are rarely brought by people who ignore more the questions than others.

And to conclude:
In fact, I think our solution to make Maniaplanet as United as possible, including what you will see in the demo, is superb. And this is why that even if it will be a quiet release, I believe that the demo is our most important release ever, by far \o/
Maniaplanet is mostly a paying environment today and there is between 1500 and 2000 peak simultaneous players every day. I don't say it's good enough, but it's much more than when we were going to release Nations in 2006. I don't think the demo will make Maniaplanet grow really quickly, but I know how interesting for the growth. It's "make your own title" nations time. It's more complex and Shootmania/Maniaplanet are less known than Trackmania out of France than Trackmania was in 2006, but it's much more 2.0: Twitter/Twitch/Youtube/Facebook ready than most things I know. And once you will see the feature of the demo, you may be more convinced than now. So, at least, wait until the demo ;)
User avatar
Cuba.CZ
Translator
Translator
Posts: 97
Joined: 27 Apr 2011, 18:20

Re: The Titlepacksystem - The False Prophet

Post by Cuba.CZ »

meuh21 wrote:...
Once again, we are not suggesting to wipe titlepacks away, as they can fit for projects such as Raid I suppose, but they seem they shouldn't be a necessity for the system or some of the features.

But I'm looking to the solution Hylis. :pop:
Last edited by Cuba.CZ on 26 Jun 2014, 14:39, edited 2 times in total.
Image
User avatar
Omnixor
Translator
Translator
Posts: 2708
Joined: 03 Jul 2010, 17:07
Location: Vilnius, Lithuania

Re: The Titlepacksystem - The False Prophet

Post by Omnixor »

@hylis: stop comparing playerbase of today and 8 years ago, goddamit. with the amount of PC gamers today, you should brag about 50x numbers, not about "much more" (2x? lol)

and can you accept any criticism at all? there are about 10 people in this topic who think titlepack system isn't the most efficient one, then meuh comes and says "it is good", and you talk about how meuh is right and everyone else is wrong. :0010
- staff head of ESL TM²Stadium -
Hylis
Nadeo
Nadeo
Posts: 3933
Joined: 14 Jun 2010, 11:58

Re: The Titlepacksystem - The False Prophet

Post by Hylis »

1. I don't brag, you have problem to read
2. There is 3 games only with 50 times of players on Steam, and the 3 are from Valve
3. Yes, we intend to reach this, but it takes time.

Meanwhile, realize that there are much more games than before as well :thx:

A very succesful game like Rust (#15th on Steam) is at 15K. It's a lot, and it would be a great step, but it's fun to see how easy it's seem to say:"you are not in the top 3, you are bad, take my solutions, I am better"

Anyway, you believe what you want, and it's cool like that :pil
Hylis
Nadeo
Nadeo
Posts: 3933
Joined: 14 Jun 2010, 11:58

Re: The Titlepacksystem - The False Prophet

Post by Hylis »

Cuba.CZ wrote:
meuh21 wrote:...
Once again, we are not suggesting to wipe titlepacks away, as they can fit for projects such as Raid I suppose, but they seem they shouldn't be a necessity for the system or some of the features.

But I'm looking to the solution Hylis. :pop:
Exactly!
1. It will be even more obvious how title packs are good
2. There is a need of other features as well, and we are working on it :thx:
User avatar
TGYoshi
Posts: 795
Joined: 15 Mar 2011, 16:59

Re: The Titlepacksystem - The False Prophet

Post by TGYoshi »

Hylis wrote:blabla
I've never said locators were the solution (they aren't), but like many others in this topic I'm pointing to something like mod-based datapacks. Like you know, most games do. Maniaplanet isn't an operating system, this complex and tedious installation process is boring for in-game content.

Well, I guess "the demo" will tell me different. Or maybe it'll tell you different.
We'll see, we'll see.

:pop:
=3
User avatar
Omnixor
Translator
Translator
Posts: 2708
Joined: 03 Jul 2010, 17:07
Location: Vilnius, Lithuania

Re: The Titlepacksystem - The False Prophet

Post by Omnixor »

Nadeo, is there any ETA for universal demo?
- staff head of ESL TM²Stadium -
User avatar
Soprah
Posts: 852
Joined: 11 Sep 2011, 16:07
Location: Germany

Re: The Titlepacksystem - The False Prophet

Post by Soprah »

Hylis wrote:There is a need of other features as well, and we are working on it :thx:
As soon as you announce any new feature I am so excited that I would even travel to france and run right in front of your office to ask you ''What's the new feature you just told us in the Forum?" :lol: I am so curious and impatient when it comes to new features ^.^


I agree with most of your arguments regarding the titlepack-issue and I am very glad that everybody feels committed to improve Maniaplanet as well as its sub-games ''Shootmania" & "Trackmania". Proves once more that the Maniaplanet community stands together to face one big issue by giving plenty of criticism and suggestions :)

I personally believe that it is not necessary to talk about the PROs & CONs of the titlepacks before the long-awaited universal demo followed with the ''new thing to help titlepacks'' is finally out. The situation of the titlepacks might completely change after the demo and then is everything what we've discussed here nearly ''senseless''. Obviously, it isn't ''senseless'' because this hot-heated discussion reminded us once more about the serious titlepack-issue and Hylis informed us about his positive insight of the titlepacks which is always fine to read in order to understand his decisions. However, as I've already mentioned above, let's wait until the demo is released and then it would make probably more sense to start this sort of debate again - at least in my opinion. :thumbsup:

Best greetings,
Soprah
Last edited by Soprah on 26 Jun 2014, 16:02, edited 1 time in total.
Post Reply

Return to “Maniaplanet”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest