Embedding items Limit only 150kb

[Soprah]

''There shouldn't be any obstacle for creativity, not now nor in the future''.

My personal opinon about this is : without obstacles, or constraints, creativity is somewhat boring or useless.

That's also a good insight. I assume my father was exxagerating in order to make it clear.
To make it more realistic (and that's probably what he meant): Reducing the obstacles for creativity as much as possible.
The embedding limit would be a great start ^.^

[UrinStein]

I guess the only reason it's that low is to promote the usage of titlepacks

this

(no troll here) I'm wondering what the TMX admins think about this subject (they pay for storage I think), or the server hosts ?

I can't talk for Hylis but as you know, a map file contains the coordinates of the blocks that the player has because they are in the environment/Title Pack. An embedded blocks is different because the client has to download the block and then place it on the map.

If there is a simple way to have people download block-packs independently from the maps they are used there is no problem with that.
TGYoshi has suggested those over and over and over and over again.

Cerovan's guess is already that the blocks aren't in the map file anyway.

[TGYoshi]

My personal opinon about this is : without obstacles, or constraints, creativity is somewhat boring or useless.

The block-basedness of tm is/was a real obstacle. And I completely agree that resulted in some special creative approaches.
However, the 150 kb limit is a numerical one, obtained from thin air. I'd not regard it as a creative limitation - I regard it as a limitation which could easily be knocked up/removed. In fact, titlepacks don't have such limitations, so either way I don't think it's a "creativity border" set. Why not titlepacks? They're not accessible.

Just like "only stad car on stadium". Code was actually added to prevent it from happening at all.

These limitations make no sense in my opinion, nobody asked for those limitations.

Even people with terrible internet will likely ask people to make more lightweight maps instead of asking here for a limitation in the game...

[novationx]

Why not make it unlimited & lower it when you see a complaint on the forum?

@Fix, can you also say --why-- you think unlimited creativity can be boring/useless. Because without arguements, I need to look for my own & then I completely disagree with what you said.

[Fix]

sorry for the off topic

@Fix, can you also say --why-- you think unlimited creativity can be boring/useless. Because without arguements, I need to look for my own & then I completely disagree with what you said.

I'll try to explain my view, but in english I may fail.

let's imagine I have no constraints, and I use my keyboard as a creativity tool (and let's say the keyboard limits is not a constraint here).

first throw (free creativity):
vlkvlrqsiotjhsdgè(-çàé"'çà

add one constraint, use only _\ /
__/_/_/__\\__\\__\____-

just this random typing is already making my brain vibe and want to create some interesting variants (wich is one constraint)
/\__/\
or
__/\__
or
____/\____
___/__\___
__/____\__
_/______\_

I feel more creative, challenged to create something, create an answer, a use, a sense, a logic, a rythm, a pattern, an emotion.
And by creating these, I assign to myself these artificial constraints / obstacles / goals.

Then, if you go back to the keyboard in reality and see it now as a constraint, you end up with writing, poems, ASCII art.

Remove all the limits, and you have : infinite possibilities and void; but as soon as you don't want to create random (wich is not creation I think) and want to give some sense to what you create, you assign yourself constraints.
When you draw, the paper's physics and its interaction with the pencil are a limitation, to the drawing, or to the folding.

pixel art, voxel art (mine craft), vine, etc... Those are heavy limits that emphasize creativity.

[UrinStein]

[sarcasm]
Oh right, limiting your possibilities will increase your creativity!

So let's limit you to only Nadeo's blocks again, because the ability to import own blocks will open to many possibilities for you to get creative within.

Forget the whole "you will be able to import your own blocks into Trackmania/Maniaplanet"-thing, that has been going on for three years now.
[/sarcasm]

It is just so hypocritical to now say, we should try and work with what we have, after promising us that we will have custom objects in the game.
I'm sorry but it's like Microsoft saying "1080p is not everything!" after promising a super super powerful new console.

This whole creativity discussion has nothing to do with the limit of the damn map size. If anyone thinks it's artistically interesting to limit themselves to certain blocks, they'll just do so. Period.
Has happened often enough.

[TitiShu]

@Fix, can you also say --why-- you think unlimited creativity can be boring/useless. Because without arguements, I need to look for my own & then I completely disagree with what you said.

There are more creativity with limits... just try to open a 3D software like 3DSMax, it's a lot harder to find inspiration and creativity than map editor...


But yes the 150Kb limit is very short... 500Kb would be better and not oversized

[TGYoshi]

pixel art, voxel art (mine craft), vine, etc... Those are heavy limits that emphasize creativity.

Now the blocks TM/SM have fit there too, no doubt.

Numerical ones aren't. Being limited by the size of your paper where you can put your fancy _ / \ characters on is flat out annoying, not creativity-empathizing. Except for some exceptions when you want to challenge yourself (like building a map within a 5x5 space or so). These challenges can be set by the user himself, in my opinion.

There are more creativity with limits... just try to open a 3D software like 3DSMax, it's a lot harder to find inspiration and creativity than map editor...

If I open some 3d software, you must ensure you know what you're doing it for, what you're making. Otherwise.. why are you doing it?

Limits like the blocks in TM/SM promotes creative thinking, just like voxel graphics in minecraft. Limiting filesizes is just flat out annoying, since some things just take much more space then other things (good curves, details) and I think limits of such a nature are demotivating, not promoting creativity.

[novationx]

pixel art, voxel art (mine craft), vine, etc... Those are heavy limits that emphasize creativity.

Now the blocks TM/SM have fit there too, no doubt.

Numerical ones aren't. Being limited by the size of your paper where you can put your fancy _ / \ characters on is flat out annoying, not creativity-empathizing. Except for some exceptions when you want to challenge yourself (like building a map within a 5x5 space or so). These challenges can be set by the user himself, in my opinion.

Yes, this is why ur way of thinking is "wrong". We dont ask to add ABCDEFGH..123...&"éç"éè. We want to use more ///\\\|| and we are running out of paper

EDIT : well yeah a new block could be a new letter. maybe both arguements arent wrong?

[meuh21]

I think embedded items is not a good solution. Why ? Because of this kind of topic. Because the community will ask to move the limit. In my opinion the best solution was simple : items are only available in title packs. Easier to understand and no discussion about the size

This way need a better coperation between item creators and title packs builbers. It is a longer way but it is more interesting. The only interesting thing with the embedding limit is to develop competences : small size item and game textures. That's good for the future.

I agree with Fix about limitation. It is much more interesting but it is difficult to know where should be the limit. Here with item embedded or for mixmapping or car mixing or gameplay parameters. And more important it is very difficult if the limitation always move.