[Environments] Weather conditions

[nocturne]

Ever play the TMN track Vulcan by Crusard..? Had a rather ingenious usage of MT effects to simulate the visage of a torrential downpour. Although it's not exactly what the OP intended, that's as far as I would like to see TM go in this regard -- purely born out of the inspiration and skill of the track's author.

Although, I wouldn't mind seeing the addition of new types of track building blocks which could have some type of effect on car physics. Imagine being able to add in little bits such as puddles, wet pavement, oil slicks, potholes, (or at least blocks with some handling differences other than road vs. dirt) etc... each with their own effect on the driving experience. It's not exactly too steep an accomplishment as far the physics engine goes, and would allow for a bit more creativity in custom tracks. To those versed in the art of Stadium racing, you'd certainly understand how every engineered bump and slide can make the absolute difference in your time.

[ionian]

This forum has a very nice search function in the upper right corner. If you enter "weather" there, you find exactly the thread from second.

But if you search for "Wheaters"?

On topic - its almost certainly too late to add it, it would have to be cosmetic only to ensure a fair competition on each map, and how much rain is there in a canyon in a desert anyway?

[haenry]

I still don't get some people.

First:
There is a subforum called "Suggestions".That is the place where you post suggestions, as the title implies.
Second:
If you go into the suggestion part of the forum, there you will find this thread.
[Environments] Weather conditions
Third:
This forum has a very nice search function in the upper right corner. If you enter "weather" there, you find exactly the thread from second.

+1

[Knutselmaaster]

I still don't get some people.

First:
There is a subforum called "Suggestions".That is the place where you post suggestions, as the title implies.
Second:
If you go into the suggestion part of the forum, there you will find this thread.
[Environments] Weather conditions
Third:
This forum has a very nice search function in the upper right corner. If you enter "weather" there, you find exactly the thread from second.

+1

Moved!
(and closed of course, thanks tcq, you took the words out of my keyboard)

Edit; even better, i merged the two topics, as the discussion was interesting enough ^^
Carry on gentlemen

[zixxiz]

Perhaps instead of making weather a mood option or telling everyone that it is impossible, weather could be implemented as part of a new environment, whose physics are already based on the weather in it. While i suppose this isn't in the spirit of customizing your mood on an environment, you still get your weather.

Keep in mind that there will be maniascript to hook into the game and this could be used to generate weather effects in game, if the scope of maniascript allows such, so keep your eyes open for possibilities there.

As far as weather goes, I envisioned a windy condition that causes cars to drift a cardinal direction, perhaps more so while in air. Even worse, gusty wind.....

[wiidesire-2]

Perhaps instead of making weather a mood option or telling everyone that it is impossible, weather could be implemented as part of a new environment, whose physics are already based on the weather in it. While i suppose this isn't in the spirit of customizing your mood on an environment, you still get your weather.

Keep in mind that there will be maniascript to hook into the game and this could be used to generate weather effects in game, if the scope of maniascript allows such, so keep your eyes open for possibilities there.

As far as weather goes, I envisioned a windy condition that causes cars to drift a cardinal direction, perhaps more so while in air. Even worse, gusty wind.....

you know what you say? This is not Trackmania, this is a realistic game. We don't need weather effects. I thought long about this and I recognized that this would not give us any advantage, espically there will be no more fun because of that. Of course it's possible to do it. But do we really need weather effects, who changes the physics?

look I have some scenarious for you.

weather effect, which change the handling -> some players want the same handling
weather effects, which not change the handling -> why should you make weather effects without changing the handling? -> useless

also weather effects are just like, a wall in the track, because you can't really the track ( rain) -> no fun

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not all will be happy about the decision
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no weather effects xD

this is just my opinion, but if Nadeo would wanted weather effects, they have already implented that.

Again it needs much time to make and also it wouldn't be the ''Trackmania Style''

[zixxiz]

you know what you say? This is not Trackmania, this is a realistic game. We don't need weather effects. I thought long about this and I recognized that this would not give us any advantage, espically there will be no more fun because of that. Of course it's possible to do it. But do we really need weather effects, who changes the physics?

Why does including weather imply that the game is more realistic? When you play some racing games like Pole Position and you hit a puddle, you spin uncontrollably, is that realistic? If you perhaps made a windy environment or track and the physics caused the car to veer significantly while in air, I wouldnt call that realistic. I dont think that the addition of weather is intended to be more or less fun, but rather an additional way to race an environment, to give it another look or add a challenge. Do we need physics altering weather? No, but that is not what I am trying to convey, but rather options to make it desirable for those that may consider it useless and feasible for those who would like it.

weather effect, which change the handling -> some players want the same handling
weather effects, which not change the handling -> why should you make weather effects without changing the handling? -> useless

In the scenario where the weather is an included aspect of an environment, there is no precedent for what the handling would be if there was no weather. I suppose you could say this "cosmetic," but there would be obvious physics that indicate the condition would make a difference.

also weather effects are just like, a wall in the track, because you can't really the track ( rain) -> no fun
v
not all will be happy about the decision

I have trouble agreeing that weather would make a "wall" in the track, when many tracks that I have raced are blind and hard to to race because you cant see the track (similar issue that you propose) and even worse is some mediatracker work. Obviously there will be people who will prefer not to race in weather effects, but the same can be said when people do not like Canyon or other new environments. By having an environment that is rainy or some other condition by default, the pretense that it could be better without the condition is gone because it just becomes a new physics environment, much like Canyon will be. By offering the ability to modify graphical or physical actions of the game with maniascript, it gives the Crusard's of ManiaPlanet the ability to give their tracks unique appearances.

this is just my opinion, but if Nadeo would wanted weather effects, they have already implented that.
Again it needs much time to make and also it wouldn't be the ''Trackmania Style''

I think that just because it has yet to be seen in a Nadeo game doesnt mean that anything new, such as weather, isn't fair game in the future. And what constitutes "Trackmania Style?" I think that the (good) reason to make new games or expansions to games is to not only improve on the game, but to also change what you expect in the game, not another rehash of every game before it.


I am not particularly for or against adding weather conditions to Trackmania, but merely offering solutions that are neither time consuming for the developer or constantly intrusive to gameplay. With an environment already with weather it would give a feel to the environment required by development anyway and maniascript weather would had off the development to players rather than the development.

[wiidesire-2]

to make it short:

some people will be against weather and some people will be not against it.

I mean with Trackmania Style, unrealistic gameplay, wallrider,loops, huge jumps, air brake, no weather

you know on the one hand, when the weather changes the handling , then it would be not ,,Trackmania Style´´ , on the other hand weather without changing the handling, would be a waste of time.

In this case you can be 100% sure that not all gamers like it , so it wouldn't be smart from Nadeo to add this feature.

Leave it out and 1 problem less. Also you say it's a new environment. I have nothing against the environment it self , when there is darkness or snow ( Snow environment). But weather effects would kill the game.

I don't explain more now, I hope 5% understood what I mean from this and my previous post. Continue your discussion, but you can be pretty sure that there will be no real weather effects.
Just as I said different climate zones like Antarctic and Canyon will be probably added ( just look at Canyon ).

[Romain42]

There is snow on the environment called snow. Obviously it doesn't bother you. What would you think of a rainy environment called rain? It would be EVER raining on this environment, you would NEVER know what it may looks when the weather is beautiful. The rain would be part of the environment itself, like the snow is part of snow (Guess how the ground of snow looks in summer? / How the snowcar drives on grass? Can you stay that snow is useless in snow environment?)...

About the realistic/unrealistic debate... I don't believe everything that is realistic should be rejected. If you turn left, do you want your car to go rightwards because it is less realistic? Probably not. Lots of aspects of the Trackmania gameplay are amplifications of the reality:

- When you suddenly steer in your real car, it tends to destabilize and lean toward the outside of the road. What happens in desert? The same, very much exagerrated.
- Same, a kart may slide easily if you attack too much and lose time when it slides: island and coast are amplifications of this doing.
- If you think huge jumps are unrealistic, you never watched rally (the real races, not the so called environment).

Again, Nadeo only amplified an aspect of the reality to an extreme point to make it unrealistic. But the inspiration comes from real life rather than esoteric dreams. They don't make anything.

That said, would a rainy environment (with PERMANENT rain) based on amplification of the effects of aquaplaning be a treason of the spirit of TM? I think no. It's even the opposite, i think it would PERFECTLY fit the spirit of TM! Would it be fun to drive? I don't know. Maybe it would be too tricky or even sadic, but who can say before a try?

TM is all about driving and i believe the main matter of the developpers is "do we have fun while driving with this gameplay?"... "Do the players will have fun also?". "Is it realistic" is a very secondary thing imo...

On topic - its almost certainly too late to add it, it would have to be cosmetic only to ensure a fair competition on each map, and how much rain is there in a canyon in a desert anyway?

Plus, wheather conditions do not have to be silly. A sandstorm in Groënland is senseless, as well as a deluge in Canyon or snow in Amazon!

[Trackmaniack]

So, I'm cherry-picking points here from the topic, rather than talking about the whole post...on the topic of how non-physics-affecting weather would be a waste of time, I ask you, why? Why would something that bumps the visual level of the game up a notch (in a game that's about visuals over realism -anyway-) be a bad thing? Sure, maybe in a desert-y style Canyon rain would be out of place, but what about in a European Valley? The grass doesn't spring from nowhere Take...for example, the video game, HAWX. Or Battlefield 2. Not racing games, but still can help to prove my point. With both of these games, there are maps with different weather effects, ranging from rain to full-on torrential downpours. In both of these games, at least in my experience, this is all theatrics--having little-to-no effect on the gameplay whatsoever, the rain not even affecting the player's visibility. However, it -does- add an immersive effect into the game--rather than just playing against a matte, silent background of a cloudy gray, raindrops fall, interact with the environment, but do not affect it. See my point now?

And secondly, on the topic of an environment to be potentially named "Rain", the physics wouldn't have to be too sadistic...they could be like an updated Rally...slidey, but not icey.