Beta 2 feedback topic

[MuNgLo]

I think that if the attacker took 3 checkpoints, he should be really dangerous on capturing the last pole, even against 3 defenders. I don't feel that 1 second is dangerous enough. I don't think that under 0.5 it could be good. I hesitate between 0.5 and 0.75, so maybe a 0.625 is a good way to start.

If taking the three checkpoints does not make the attacker so dangerous, than the story of the checkpoint capture would be not enough interesting to follow. I would add 5 seconds on each checkpoint, just to test the feeling of having extra time.

The problem is at least on the map I made and the way I see the gameplay to be is that 15s more would make it to much time for the map. As it is now I've built it so you can unopposed cap all 3 CP and have ~15s left until goal opens. Defenders will do anything to take that extra time away from the attacker so he is forced to try to cap the goal with as few CP's taken as possible. If the attacker would have 15s extra over then he could doubleback on any fight and still have time to cap all 3 cp's.
Making the map bigger or more convoluted in how you must go to get around would be a solution but that would cripple the defenders possibility to keep the pressure on the attacker as he would be able to outrun them basically.

My point is that the time you choose to have in Elite dictates in a very clear way how you can build the maps. And due to the games nature of rockets, laser and armourpoint I don't see how longer turntime and/or bigger maps would do anything but act in the attackers benefit. At the cost of intensity and entertainmentvalue for both spectators and players.

How about just having an optimal goalcaptime of ~0.6. Then let each existing CP add 1.5s to that. That would also make it possible for you to let people place more checkpoints in the editor since it wouldn't effect the time really. Unless the mapper choose to put CP's out of reach. But then he better have a damn good reason for it.

[D16]

leave +0 is total random factor +0 help defender not attacker

[coxello]

This game has been ruined after the beta v2, the only good thing is the wall jump.The bouncing rockets are useless, so I've nothing special to say about that... But let's see the worst thing, +0! Those makes the game random, and a TOTALLY NO-SKILL FPS! And the delay on the long-range rail is orrible. The skill's not important like before, after the beta v2.

[Nick0demus]

yeah, Shootmania went from a fun Esport game where u could practice and get better, get good aim and practice to become a strong team. Now.. It's not fun to say it, but now the most of the game is about luck, that the opponent wont shoot at the same time as you, that's probably the most important in the game for now, that the deffender wont shoot at the same time as you. And if one team have much luck and just shoot at the same time as attacker, they'll win. We just got beaten up vs some really really bad players because they got +0 so much times that they were all alive every round. And the skill to make nice shots and tricking your opponent off-guard is totally gone now. Since they just need to shoot some rockets, and the whole moment for the attacker is gone.

I cant see how stupid and retarded people who says that it's good for attacker with +0 because they can "get out off combat easier". That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard! The +0 shit is just make the deffenders better, the game useless and random, and a game based on luck more then skill. A totally non-skilled game, a game where noobs can win against pros. A game where the luck is the biggest factor.

GREAT JOB NADEO. Fix this, or you will see your game dies as fast as it releases.

[luxxiz]

I made a comment before, but I'm gonna do a new one as I might have spoken too quickly about certain things.

My feedback is coming from a competitive point of view after quite alot of beta2 gametime.

1) *Jumping*
At first I really hated it, it feels slow and almost a bit laggy and the small jump prevented me from going places fast. But it was just a matter of getting used to it. I really like that you don't have to make a big jump to get new speed. If you could make it a bit sharper that'd be great. Like respond time should be quicker or something. It's hard to explain but it feels laggy kind of. But yes, keep the choice of making a small or high jump.

2) *Rail vs Rocket*
I stated in my previous comment that it should be removed and I am still there. It destroys so much. You outbrain someone with a nice move for example and the opponent is just spamming rockets because they're in panic and that saves their life. It prevents so much. It's decreasing the skillgap again and we don't want that. Before you schooled someone, now you sch+0+0l them. REMOVE!

3) *Sound*
I've heard and seen many people complain about the sound. Sure the sound is far from great but I don't see it being that bad either. Being able to listen and control the sound is a skill. As for now you can't really do that so well. I wish it being a bit better. It's really dull atm which makes it hard to hear stuff. Fix!

4)*Walljumping*
Very nice feature and adds alot to the flow. Maybe do so you can control the walljump abit more than now? Sometimes you just fly an other way that you want, it feels abit random and not really controllable. If it's possible to make it so you can controll it abit more that'd be great! Also jumping as many times as you want on the wall is good. It suits the Shootmania gameplay/maps very nice. Keep!

5) *Replay/Editor*
This HAS to be fixed. Creating fragmovies and such will help the game itself. As for now you must have quite alot of knowlegde to be able to create a decent one. Sens said it perfect.

12) Simple editor. At least this makes it easier for someone who doesn't knowing what they are doing to activate replays and watch in view. Good change. BUT! We need more! We should be able to toggle off: Crosshair, pings you do/see, and even if possible, wallhack mode so you can see players through walls just to help investigate anything dodgy (ie watch someone track a person without sound or a clue). At least just a crosshair button omg Good change but needs WAY MORE.

- Crosshair
- Fragmessages(being able to see who you fragged is important for fragmovies)
- Pings
- Wallhack(to check for cheaters)
- HUD

Basically, MORE settings, toogle modes on everything, like you want clean hud when creating fragmovie etc. Just alot off options. MORE MORE! Just make stuff more user-friendly. Like the mapeditor, it's quite userfriendly. Replayeditor, not at all.



Also, what Sens also wrote, try to make everything more userfriendly and more settings for people. Just buying the game and actually get to play is very difficult to some people. And then, if they're finally in, getting into an elite server n stuff is just to complicated for casual players.

There are more stuff I think about but everytime I'm here I keep forgetting :/.

FnaticRC/luxxiz signing out!

Ps. Roll on the release with some nice updates! ;D

[sandel]

I play mostly Siege and the issues of teams balance are ruining the mod.

The existing system is not working, as we constantly get 20% or more players on one team, as people join. In under 10v10 situations this is rather critical for the undersized team, and usually ends up in people quiting, mostly mid-game. I come from a q3 "background" where this was not on option as server cvars set the maximum amount of difference. I think this is enforced somehow but it is just not working, as all new players joining in the same minute or something get shipped to one team then that team gets overpopulated and it's the other team's turn and so on...

Then there is team switching, as clan members switch according to their majority, whiners switch according to their heart and rail-festers (and elite players warming up) joining to switch for attack-only-mode, because they just love the laser.

...and then there is the "balance teams" feature, which makes the worst teams sometimes. The most simple and effective way to balance the players out would be score-wise, according to the previous map. This would just work much better, as simple as it sounds. Currently it's balancing rankings, which are useless, and will remain so probably since it's a FPS and skilled players will come from various other games and will remain very skilled even if they play 4 hours per week. There might be also a bug, if you balance the teams quickly a few times, only the initial balance will happen, there other ones appear to do nothing.

To sum the issues up we have the joining players that all get shipped to the same team, the freedom of switching whenever one sees fit and the balance team feature which just evens out players on a ranking basis.

For the fixes i would suggest a 5-10% maximum difference between team sizes, which would also fix the team switching and balancing trough some concrete criteria rather than ranking (frags, minutes alive,...).

The current system is just to rudimentary for the level of detail in this game and i have no doubts it will get fixed eventually as it's affecting team mods apart from Elite.

[Hylis]

sandel, you are totally right, we are working on this. I call it the match quality, and it is on top of our list. It will take little more time, but we have good ideas to work on this.

luxxiz, really good feedback. We have improved a little the replay editor to display the +1, at least. There is a big work to enable script to log information for replay editor since it depends on the modes, but we will do it a little later. The other points,I already explained why we will do test instead of remove, and what is already fixed, like the sound.

the v2 is a v2.0, and a major .0 version often brings many modifications, which can be positive or still unfixed.

[luxxiz]

Also the ladder system should be changed, make it something like starcraft2. Now it's just who plays the most but skillwise aint even close of being top10!

[Ravior]

Feedback on Beta 2:

Its just about the looks:

First: The gui for the experimental royal mode has not been updated yet, i guess if it really is "experimental" it won't be updated until its something like final.

Second: I have never ever in my live seen buttons this ugly. I mean the buttons in the shootmania menu now. I don't know, I think this blurry glass stuff was really good, but making klunky big ass buttons which glow in the most biting colors (red and blue together with a fucking stupid balance of both) is the most ugliest Ive ever seen. You should really let a designer or a team work over the ENTIRE gui of maniaplanet, shootmania ingame and menues gui. They should all look rather the same and should be flat, slick and modern. Not klunky, and not differing as hell (you know theyre fat buttons on the menu but the ingame menues are like totally different).

Thats just what I wanted to say.

Its always so refreshing to be interested in seeing what has changed when a new update is downloaded - and after this has been done feeling the need to vomit when seeing the new stuff.

There are really easy words to put the whole gui thing in: Intuitive and persistent.

Well I guess I see now how it comes that the final release was postponed more than two months. Youre far from done. It still says "cars" in the profile menu where you select your character. And it also still says "Horns" here and there. Thats so stupid. I, as a developer, would never let stuff like this be seen by external people. It would be a shame for me to have pesky stuff like this in my software which I build with the content of my heart. It really shows how much nadeo lacks of putting love into this if mistakes and simply wrong stuff comes out even in a second beta version...

Im kinda disappointed.

[Hylis]

Some people nowadays are really strange.

- They seek beauty, but they use words like ass, fucking, hell, vomit, stupid, shame, pesky and disappointed in a single post.

- They care more about the prestige and yet they display something much more negative than having the word 'cars' written in a software and much closer to what shame can apply to, like if a work that is not changed would be more a shame than how they express themselves.

- They insult the developer of the game they are playing, like if they were playing the game made by stupid people that do not care for their game. What a loss of time.

And now, I am not talking about Ravior, but I have seen really shy people act like this online, like if they had to prove something by trying to be superior to whatever. They seems to prefer to destroy instead of being constructive and positive. I think I should give a word about this, since it is not really troll. It is lesser than that, it makes me think more of goblins. I know it is less of beauty, but when they express themselves, especially about beauty, love, intelligence, it makes people smile a little.

Sorry, but one day someone said what was a troll. And we need words to communicate better in our world.