Maniaplanet Forum

MrA wrote:For the track creation contest, we made a site update at http://tm.mania-exchange.com ..... track groups! If you upload your track entry to [mx] using our Special TM 10th Anniversary Upload Link, then the map will still be listed under your own MX account, but all maps uploaded via that link are attached to the group as well, making your entry easy for everyone else to find...

Track Group Listing: Special TM 10th Anniversary Tracks List Link

Better than Steam right? - Use MX to submit your entry

Much better than steam. Thank you.

I've debated whether to write this post or not. I don't want to be negative, or overly critical. But some stuff about the rules has been bugging me ever since I first read them, and I just can't get over it.

Of course it's your contest, and you can set the rules however you like, but I just wanted to bring up some issues I have with some of the rules:

-Track Contest-

Contest Rules wrote:Players may only submit one entry, and may not edit their entry once it has been submitted.

If maps are allowed to be uploaded to MX, then this rule should change to allow users to modify their map until the deadline.

Contest Rules wrote:Players may only use TrackMania2 Stadium.

I have to say when I read this my heart sank in my chest. I mean, this is an event for the 10th Anniversary of TrackMania!!! Why exclude the rich history and diversity of the other 8 TM environments? Besides that, a lot of people do not build in Stadium, so they'll be left out.

Earlier in the thread you said that it would require a more robust set of judging criteria. I disagree. Track contests have long been held cross-environment, and with varying sets of criteria for judges, from simple scoring to more complex scoring based on specific criteria like creativity and design.

It can be done, and it should be done. Please include all of TrackMania, and not just 1/9th of it.

Contest Rules wrote:The track should begin [first 10-15 seconds] as a “press forward” map that leads into a jump.

I will acknowledge that some people still build PF starts. But by and large, they went out many years ago, and with good reason. When you're driving a track multiple times, hunting for the best time, the time you spend in the PF start feels very wasted. They're a novelty for sure, and if someone wants to build one, I have nothing against it. But I find the rule that you have to build one to be rather disappointing.

Contest Rules wrote:Track Length: 40-50 Seconds

1/4 or more of which doesn't even require any skill, because PF start.

-Video Contest-

Contest Rules wrote:Videos may only use footage related to TrackMania2 titles. This includes clips from trailers, in-game play, or any community created video content directly related to TrackMania.

Only TM2? I can't even imagine creating a video about the 10th Anniversary of TM and leaving out TMN or TMUF, not to mention some of other games that helped get us to 10 years.

Contest Rules wrote:Only the first 60 submissions will be accepted.

This rule was also there for the Track Contest and the Car/Skin Contest. In my opinion, this rule just encourages people to rush their entries, so that they'll be included. It could reduce quality overall. Why not just leave it open? Truth is, you probably won't even get this many entries, but it still encourages people to rush the quality.

Well the prizes seem cool, and the rest of the rules are fine. I appreciate the effort everyone involved has went to in making the contest and the events around it possible. I've organized contests too, so I know it's a lot of work. I've also had bad rules pointed out to me and been willing to change them mid-contest. I hope you'll do the same.

Also, cool MX feature that MrA told about at the bottom of the previous page!

Yeah I was wondering too if we are allowed to use TMF and TMUF instead of just TM2

Sorry for sounding like a hatter, believe me I do love the game...
...but its sad to see Nadeo shooting itself in the foot yet again.

While the idea for the contest is commendable It's rules are very arbitrary and seem designed to help the organizers and not to allow the members of the community to express themselves.

While limitations around lenght, intros and signs are understandable, the following 2 rules aren't.

• Only TrackMania2 Stadium tracks are allowed
• The track should begin (first 10-15 seconds) as a “press forward” map that leads into a jump.

It's the 10th Aniversary of TM, we should be celebrating diversity and crazy creativity not doing 60 Stadium2 tracks all with push fwd starts.

Every environment should be allowed, this should be a no brainer. If you worry about judging, get help from the community there will be plenty of non participant mappers that would make great judges.

The push fwd rule is plain ununderstandable... period . Give me one good reason why that would make the competition more fun or more creative and not less?

I call on all mappers to boycott the Track making competition if the rules aren't reconsidered.

What Nadeo seems to have forgotten (and they were around when it happened which isn't the case for me) is that the game actually released in 2004. In 2003 what existed was the open multiplayer beta, with desert and desert and a bit of desert too. But you lock the competition to Stad. I know it's the most played environment, but it's because IT IS FREE. There's a meme for that, for evils sake. A 10 year competition single envi HAS TO BE DESERT, because it's the only part of the game that turns 10 this year.

That's of course outside of the fact that making a single envi competition is absurd. I personally would have preferred to have all 9 environments and I'd come up with something.

Forcing a 10 second PF start is even more absurd. If there's really any other intentions behind this single-envi-stad rule (aka LAN events), make a track huntable, and clarify that particular aspect of the contest. Hell, make a track huntable anyways. There's not much online action anymore so a track needs some replay value, and PF starts take away all of it. That's all I ask for. I don't like when someone takes a piss on me and tells me it's raining, and it's happened entirely too much over the past 12 months (not from you tho). I kind of trusted you in this aspect, but if I can't... I know everybody's human [citation needed], but this is too much.

Because of what I said about environments, I probably won't enter. If the PF rule is reconsidered, I might recycle an unfinished project for it, but I don't even care that much since I have all 4 of the MP titles (paid for them) and I don't think I'd want to make a puzzle of my track.

Seriously, I love this game and this company looks cool, even if you're french, but you HAVE to step your contest game up A LOT. Haven't we learned about the fact that the rules to startrack had to be changed for the final round because the copper count available was too small? (We shouldn't, since the winner of startrack is now making the official tracks for y'all). Look at how eyebo's dbs contest developed: A theme, a target, 16 valley keys (which ended up being 18). You don't need much more to make a good contest. Sometimes, simplicity is the key to greatness.

tl;dr: No PFs pl0x. We'll figure it out, trust us.

From the undercover Spanish

I have read the rules for building and I thought one thing that might be a big problem.

The track has to start with a PF and the fact the track needs to be easy. A beginner track. I don't think these two things fit each other very well because everyone knows the best PFs are fast and wild A beginner might not be able to cope such speed (many difficult, wow). For builders and drivers (if they're used well) the easiest slow-down is the reverse boost. I feel like it's ok to say that an unwritten rule says: Reverse boosts suck. There might be other ways for builders to let you slow down, but that's just an impediment that is not necessary and they might be too hard too.

gadoweldosd wrote:I don't think these two things fit each other very well because everyone knows the best PFs are fast and wild

PF doesn't necessarily mean that it has to be fullspeed
i'm quite sure that they just mean that you only drive forward for the first 10 seconds and don't have to turn
they don't really want to get something that would be called PF track usually

I personally wouldn't build a map anyway, but I would totally listen to eyebo. I mean, look at the awesome MTC's and MMC's the last years from tmx. They are so well organized, only have interesting themes and the community on tmx and mx is already big.
I feel like it's more of a try to speak to newcomers on Trackmania, not the veterans.

I hope you guys (the ones who have set up the rules, and the ones who are able to change them) reconsider your thoughts about this contest. Why not just giving a theme and let players unleash their skills they got during the many years of Trackmania History.

Really; as someone who was really excited about every of the contests, I feel now pretty slapped in the face. As eyebo said about the decision, that it'll only be TM² Stadium, I am really shocked that it's so restricted regarding the colorful past.

Hello all!

I hear your concerns and understand them. I will try to answer them to the best of my ability. However, please be aware that I am fairly new to the team and these contest rules were created prior to my arrival. BUT, feel free to continue to provide your feedback and voice your concerns.

Answer time!!

eyebo wrote:

Contest Rules wrote:Players may only use TrackMania2 Stadium.

I have to say when I read this my heart sank in my chest. I mean, this is an event for the 10th Anniversary of TrackMania!!! Why exclude the rich history and diversity of the other 8 TM environments? Besides that, a lot of people do not build in Stadium, so they'll be left out.

I totally understand. TrackMania has a long history and you guys want to use all of it. This was a conscious decision made by the team in order to have the top tracks be featured on a single server. One of the prizes is that we feature the top tracks for everyone to download. I know this is limiting. I understand. However, we really wanted to showcase fans' work in a special way and this is what was necessary.

eyebo wrote:

Contest Rules wrote:The track should begin [first 10-15 seconds] as a “press forward” map that leads into a jump.

I will acknowledge that some people still build PF starts. But by and large, they went out many years ago, and with good reason. When you're driving a track multiple times, hunting for the best time, the time you spend in the PF start feels very wasted. They're a novelty for sure, and if someone wants to build one, I have nothing against it. But I find the rule that you have to build one to be rather disappointing.

The way TM track creation has evolved is amazing, and the player base too has evolved. This decision from the team was put in place primarily for judging criteria. Reminder, we will be hosting these tracks for anyone to download, so our vision had to broad and incorporate new players, as well as experienced. Again, I understand that this is limiting.

eyebo wrote:

Contest Rules wrote:Track Length: 40-50 Seconds

1/4 or more of which doesn't even require any skill, because PF start.

See above.

eyebo wrote: -Video Contest-

Contest Rules wrote:Videos may only use footage related to TrackMania2 titles. This includes clips from trailers, in-game play, or any community created video content directly related to TrackMania.

Only TM2? I can't even imagine creating a video about the 10th Anniversary of TM and leaving out TMN or TMUF, not to mention some of other games that helped get us to 10 years.

I understand that. You want to celebrate the entire history! Again, this came down to judging restraints.

eyebo wrote:

Contest Rules wrote:Only the first 60 submissions will be accepted.

This rule was also there for the Track Contest and the Car/Skin Contest. In my opinion, this rule just encourages people to rush their entries, so that they'll be included. It could reduce quality overall. Why not just leave it open? Truth is, you probably won't even get this many entries, but it still encourages people to rush the quality.

This definitely was not our intention. We want people to take their time and be creative. I will personally try to see to it that if anyone submits placeholder content or spams entries, they will be disqualified.


Great questions and concerns. I know many of you feel this way. Unfortunately, now that the contest has started, we are unable to change the rules due to legal reasons. Plus, we would have to restart the schedule we have for this and would delay our 10th Anniversary lan party on December 14th.

I will make sure we have more contests in the future and will take all of this into consideration.

pmanacas wrote: The push fwd rule is plain ununderstandable... period . Give me one good reason why that would make the competition more fun or more creative and not less?

I understand you and many are upset by this. We had to consider a broad range of players from beginners to advanced since the winning tracks will be available to all. However, think of it as a creative challenge! When life gives you limitations, find creative ways to extend beyond those!

*This daily inspiration is brought to you by Johkr*


PS: Please don't boycott, I like you guys.

osaka-san wrote:What Nadeo seems to have forgotten (and they were around when it happened which isn't the case for me) is that the game actually released in 2004. In 2003 what existed was the open multiplayer beta, with desert and desert and a bit of desert too. But you lock the competition to Stad. I know it's the most played environment, but it's because IT IS FREE. There's a meme for that, for evils sake. A 10 year competition single envi HAS TO BE DESERT, because it's the only part of the game that turns 10 this year.

That's of course outside of the fact that making a single envi competition is absurd. I personally would have preferred to have all 9 environments and I'd come up with something.

Forcing a 10 second PF start is even more absurd. If there's really any other intentions behind this single-envi-stad rule (aka LAN events), make a track huntable, and clarify that particular aspect of the contest. Hell, make a track huntable anyways. There's not much online action anymore so a track needs some replay value, and PF starts take away all of it. That's all I ask for. I don't like when someone takes a piss on me and tells me it's raining, and it's happened entirely too much over the past 12 months (not from you tho). I kind of trusted you in this aspect, but if I can't... I know everybody's human [citation needed], but this is too much.

Because of what I said about environments, I probably won't enter. If the PF rule is reconsidered, I might recycle an unfinished project for it, but I don't even care that much since I have all 4 of the MP titles (paid for them) and I don't think I'd want to make a puzzle of my track.

Seriously, I love this game and this company looks cool, even if you're french, but you HAVE to step your contest game up A LOT. Haven't we learned about the fact that the rules to startrack had to be changed for the final round because the copper count available was too small? (We shouldn't, since the winner of startrack is now making the official tracks for y'all). Look at how eyebo's dbs contest developed: A theme, a target, 16 valley keys (which ended up being 18). You don't need much more to make a good contest. Sometimes, simplicity is the key to greatness.

tl;dr: No PFs pl0x. We'll figure it out, trust us.

From the undercover Spanish

That was a graphic image. I hope you do enter! I understand your frustrations with the limitations on the PF and env., but this was put in so we had some uniformity for judging. We plan to open up judging to the community and didn't want it to be too challenging to communicate. We also are promoting these tracks and will be featuring them, so we wanted make sure the maps are accessible to anyone.

Who knows, a new TM player could play their first game on YOUR map. That's exciting!