Endless Discussion Topic, e.g. positive/negative

[TMarc]

I know ur trying to help Tmarc...

But seriously... why dont u just remove all bad posts & bad language & replace it with
"editted by Moderator.
Reason: Bad language."

This would be more effective

Thanks, I know
But it would be considered as censoring. And I prefer the admins do that.

Besides this not every post is bad language.
And I might perhaps have to remove sometimes a post from yours or mine as well then

[Hylis]

TMarc,

When I say to someone that he is negative, it's unlikely to make him much more positive. In statistical way, I would even bet that it's going to be the contrary, at least on short term. Maybe he tries to find even more negative things to say in order to prove that he is right to be negative.

So, you can ask yourself, why to do it? While the reason are sophisticated and diverse, I think it sums up into one main reason, that is learning. I would like to learn how negativity introduce itself, how some people accept it as natural while sometimes being really simply unacceptable. I am happy to follow forums since 12 years, and I am still learning. And the time would be worth it, would I be able to learn a little more how negativity works for single people or in a community. Maybe it's hard to see how negative some are, because you don't necessary see how the arguments are badly used. But this desire to be negative instead of understanding seems to be the source of many conflicts. I have seen that the public opinion was extremely positive to make the first world war, on both side. This is insanity.

I agree that to shut up bad language, disable comments or remove a dislike button from the entire system could be an efficient solution, on short term. But I would like to learn first a little more. It's seems endless, but I believe it's positive to pursue since I expect some treasures deeper, or at least to learn that there is none if it's the case. Games are naturally made to learn or practice the mind or body, by doing things with little consequences. And when you see how acting well becomes less important than some more futile stuff here, I feel we have something to work on. So, for my personal evaluation, like you say, I would like to take the opportunity to learn more about communities and it's dynamics. And dynamics of communities is maybe the most important topic for our future.

[TMarc]

So instead of telling others are negative, would it be better to say they're not positive enough?

On two point I definitely agree with you: where something is going wrong and where we all have to improve.
Many people didn't get proper education, or the older "good notions" are lost more and more, and the result we can see in anonymous forums like ours.
To use bad words, offenses, aggressivity is much easier than if you have to show your face and your name.
We olders can try to educate, and we should not stop to do our best doing that, but not all are willing to listen.

The dynamics of communities and crouds is a very interesting field, but I think it is rather a topic for experts in psychology and social behavior, they can tell us much more and much better about.
Of course you need to know about social behavior and communities if you want to provide adequate gaming environments.

But I sincerely hope you're not doing game development just to dissimulate social experiments

[The_Big_Boo]

Many people didn't get proper education, or the older "good notions" are lost more and more, and the result we can see in anonymous forums like ours.
[...]
We olders can try to educate, and we should not stop to do our best doing that, but not all are willing to listen.

Why putting on the table this lie that people had better manners before? It's been the same since ages and the only difference is the Internet, allowing anyone to be heard instead of mainly those with "proper education" as you say.
Moreover, do you really think that "proper education" you're talking about is really a good thing? Because when I saw "educated people" being arrogant towards "less educated people", or simply "olders" towards "youngers" like you're actually doing, they're all the same for me.

[novationx]

all i wanna add 1 final time is:


Sometimes negativity is the TRUTH.
Dont dismiss a thread/topic because its negative. Sometimes it can be really important, sometimes its just frustration.

Also dont forget that the core of those topics isnt the attitude/negativity but the game aka ShootMania.
I think thats something a dev should do : Just dont read the negativity and remember the feedback.
Moderators can then clean up negativity ( if it contains bad lang or insults )

Every negative post can be as important as the most positive post. Its true.

[meuh21]

The TRUTH... Because you think there is only one truth ?

The core of the topic is not the game. Because you're not in the game. We are in the community forum. And in Maniaplanet, community is important. Not because it's Maniaplanet but because Maniaplanet is not only a game. It's also a lot of tools. And with this tools and a good spirit, a positive gamer community can make wonderfull stuff.

Like The_Big_Boo I also think it's not a problem of education or age. It could be a problem of Maniaplanet culture. The youngest (not in age) people in the community could need some help to understand what is a good forum behaviour. And a positive attitude from forum members could help. Because of pseudo, you just exist here for what you're writting or doing. That's a big chance for everyone and it should help to have the right attitude because you 're the only one responsable for your reputation in this Mania world.

Negativity is boring. But for me, the more important is Respect. Respect different opinions, respect the Nadeo work, respect new players, etc... And it's sometimes very difficult for me to respect everybody when I read always the same « jérémiades » (google translate by « moaning » but with you very kind signature « this game is too french... » i'm sure you will love to have a french word in a english topic )

[TMarc]

Many people didn't get proper education, or the older "good notions" are lost more and more, and the result we can see in anonymous forums like ours.
[...]
We olders can try to educate, and we should not stop to do our best doing that, but not all are willing to listen.

Why putting on the table this lie that people had better manners before? It's been the same since ages and the only difference is the Internet, allowing anyone to be heard instead of mainly those with "proper education" as you say.
Moreover, do you really think that "proper education" you're talking about is really a good thing? Because when I saw "educated people" being arrogant towards "less educated people", or simply "olders" towards "youngers" like you're actually doing, they're all the same for me.

It's no a lie, it's a personal observation, that manners were better some while ago. Probably I also became more critical with the time.
Bad education was always there, for sure. But it is not only in the internet that I can see it worsening nearly every day.
Want a few examples?
Simply look at railway stations or around places where there are many people.
Why do smokers throw away the packages or cigarette stubs? Why do chewers spit out the gum after usage?
Why do people let fall garbage everywhere now? There were always people doing that, but the amount has raised a lot in the past years.
Why? Because no one tells them anymore not to do that, and because there is apparently no consequence, except in a few countries with severe police control.
But if there are no rules, or if rules are not followed, manners get bad, words get bad, attitude gets bad. And the internet helped a lot for it to fasten this process even more.
You probably know how fast kids can learn, and how much they are threatening and testing their boundaries.
If there is no punishment, kids learn they can do everything, and until they really realize the consequences, it might be much too late.

Sure, older generations often think bad of younger generations. But it is not always the arrogance you want to put in my words. Perhaps it is only fear of the new and not understood things. Perhaps it is only the anger about things that are getting lost, and which were considered as common good before.
Some did never have the chance to get good education, they had to learn everything themselves, do not forget them.

New generations also bring new good things, probably faster than ever before, no doubt.
The middle-agers have to build the gap, and that this is difficult, we can also observe.
That the internet allows a much faster exchange of interests and opinions is great.
But also here education must not be forgotten.
The question here is also which example the majority of people should follow.
The more conservative and more freindly approach, or the more aggressive
If we don't stop already the few people that are shouting only because they do not instantaneously get what they want, and if there is mostly only reaction to them, soon all the others will start shouting.
At the end we will all be deaf and not able to hear anyone anymore.
More practical explanation: if Nadeo only reacts to the most angry posters, how many will get angry (even if they are not really) only to be heard?

I'm against bad behavior, but I'm also against excessive positiveness, which risks to be absurd.
I'm rather realist, which some already do consider as negative... because they always close their eyes and don't want to see at the truth and all the things that are not as good as they want to believe.
Not everything is always good. If everything was always good, life would be much easier, but it would also be boring.
Only if you have issues (or let's say: challenges), only if you have to face things that do not work well, you thing about things can be improved, and you start doing efforts.
Sadly some peoply only face malchance, let's hope they get help from others and do not have to stumble.
Doesn't good education not also tell to help others?

Another example, in terms of TrackMania: if Nadeo or the community would provide any desired street block, mappers would not have to think that much anymore about finding suitable block combinations.
Where would be the creativity if everything existed already? There would be no creativity anymore.

Edit: the whole story should get the topic of "tolerance": How to be more tolerant, at the same time not unconcerned.

[plopp]

Negativity is boring.

Pure negativity is boring. A lot of the times just pointing out a problem is considered negativity. You have posts pointing out a problem and suggesting a solution which Hylis sometimes, for some reason, takes as personal attacks. Then you have topics that say things like "This game sucks" and the thread is just about mistakes Nadeo have made in the past. The last example is of pure negativity. Unfortunately it seems to me that the time Hylis spend on this forum he spends answering the "This game sucks"-topics trying to defend himself. This makes people see that negativity is a good way to get a response.

Hylis might read most topics on the forum, but when he only answers the negative topics it seems they are the only ones he reads. That is what makes negativity spread in this forum.

[spaii]

The music soothes the soul...
Positive Education : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMxwgfs4ykM

[novationx]

http://youtu.be/rpMOBvC7UFg