Maniaplanet Forum

<_< It's not a bug. It's explained by the laws of PHYSICS. Which haven't changed in, oh, I dunno, forever. I really don't get what is with all players (TMN and TMU alike) calling everything weird they see a bug. "OMG it's a bug that made me lose that last round, it really wasn't my fault!" I'm going to describe how this works in detail, so there is no more room for crap like this. -_-


A car's suspension system, simplified, is simply a series of giant springs that help even the car out on rough surfaces, and try to neutralize or deaden some of the G-forces felt by the driver. An analogy is a waterbed. If you push on one end of the waterbed with a sharp motion (say a punch), the effect will ripple out slowly to the rest of the waterbed. Same thing happens with shocks. If you hit a rock on your right front tire, rather than the whole car bouncing up, you merely feel a slight jolt. Depending on the size of the rock of course.

This has other effects too, which become more pronounced at higher speeds. If you accelerate suddenly from stop, if the grip of your car is good enough, rather than peeling out (burning rubber), you'll feel the weight of your car shifted towards the rear wheels. This is all Newton's first law. Something you should have learned in primary school. If you brake firmly, but smoothly so as not to skid out, you'll feel the weight of your car transferred towards the front. Now, with cornering at high velocities, it's the same thing. The car's weight will shift (due to centripetal force) to the opposite side of the direction you're turning in. If you're turning right, the car will shift left. Left, it shifts right.

This was rather comically portrayed in Desert, where at medium speeds, the whole car would actually rock up on two wheels. It's much more realistically done in TM2. However, that, coupled with the lack of advanced air control seen with the previous titles, means that if you have any curve input upon leaving your jump, the car will torque as is seen in all the videos. The reason for this torquing? It's in the air. With a lack of repulsive force and counter-input (the ground and being able to steer on the ground), the car's inertia simply carries it in the direction it was last traveling, in this case, forward due to acceleration, left or right due to however the driver was turning, and around the Z axis because of the laws of motion and the car's suspension.

Now, once you've read all that, come back and tell me it's still a bug.

EDIT: On your second video, that also explains why he's pressing the keys with little tap, taps, rather than actual presses. He's trying to minimize the effect I outlined above.

So please explain this happening to each of those players, who are one of the best TM players in the world, that they couldn't avoid twisting their cars in midair, because their direction was not perfectly straight towards the jump. How should you handle jumps at high speed without and unpredictable crash caused by a super logical engine which follows the laws of physics. Unrealistic jumps can't cope with a hyper sensitive / realistic phyic engine. In order to balance this disparity you have to be able to use "aircontrole".

Just two things.

Practice: Even if they are good in tmn, they probably don't know the tricks of TM².
Analogue vs digital input methods: It will probably way easier with analogue to avoid this stuff.

Just like any new game, even the pro gamers from the previous title have to re-acclimate. Simple. It's not even about unrealistic jumps, or even lining up your jumps perfectly straight. It's about arranging your car so that you have a minimum of torque upon liftoff. I can think of one example right now. If you have a jump at the end of a long curve that you can't possibly line up straight, simply release all inputs on the last instant before the jump, and reapply as soon as you're in the air (for maximum distance--if this is desired). You don't need air control for that...

tcq wrote:Just two things.

Practice: Even if they are good in tmn, they probably don't know the tricks of TM².
Analogue vs digital input methods: It will probably way easier with analogue to avoid this stuff.

Speaking of Analog, I'm curious as to why everyone has been using keyboards only in these videos. I know some really good racers prefer keyboards, but there are quite a lot using gamepads, steering wheels, and even flight sticks. Is Nadeo trying to show off how easy the game is to play with keyboards?

I'm excited to see how the game plays with Analog, though I heard we will no longer have analog gas/brake; is that true?

I´m amazed how quickly Bergie, Hakkie JR and Kewin picked up the gameplay of TM2 at dreamhack. It only took them a few rounds and they actually just made simple corrections to more or less make times that where pretty solid on the few tracks that are on the DH servers.
But yes, even the pro players have to practice... but less then the rest of us...

There is no bug with the jumping and car turning in the air. Like stated just before, leave the jump straight and youll be fine. Even if the car is turning a bit it does not loose all that much time in the landings anyways.
And there are no bugs at all when driving, jumping landing in TM2, no landing bugs, no ramsteinbug etc, etc...

The game is really easy to drive with KB even for me that never played on keyboard... (i even beat Farfa on his super-evil-hard-demo track )

fng_thatoneguy wrote: Speaking of Analog, I'm curious as to why everyone has been using keyboards only in these videos. I know some really good racers prefer keyboards, but there are quite a lot using gamepads, steering wheels, and even flight sticks. Is Nadeo trying to show off how easy the game is to play with keyboards??

I am also really curious about this, but I guess the current videos should ease the worries of the players that thought keyboard would not be properly supported.

I really want clarification on whether 100% no slide is fastest, because most maps I have seen show sliding cars, and also what effect the audible gear changes have (if any)!

fng_thatoneguy wrote:I'm excited to see how the game plays with Analog, though I heard we will no longer have analog gas/brake; is that true?

As far as I am aware, no TM game has analogue brake/gas...

As for the no-slide, I heard somewhere (either here or in one of the news/article threads) that it depends on your speed. Low-medium, no-slide is best. But if you're bookin' it, sliding is better than braking and going around driftless.

ionian wrote:

fng_thatoneguy wrote:I'm excited to see how the game plays with Analog, though I heard we will no longer have analog gas/brake; is that true?

As far as I am aware, no TM game has analogue brake/gas...

You can set up TrackMania Nations and TrackMania United to use either digital or analog gas/brake or use both. I can't remember the actual name of the menu option off-the-top-of-my-head, but you'll see it easy enough if you look. It's on the first page of options.

I prefer analog because I can let off the gas a little around corners instead of all-or-nothing. I do lose the ability to spin donuts as tight as others, and thus, sometimes wonder if I can't take turns as sharp sometimes, but I use all the other buttons of my gamepad for other things (like switching camera view, etc. -- so I like me some analog gas/brake.

I won't be too heartbroken if we don't get it... I'll be able to adjust, but having the option would be nice.

I don't want analog gas/brake, as it would only increase the advantage of using analog input devices.
It also works fine without in TMUF. The TMUF engines are still very complex and analog gas/brake would be too much.