The worlds First Tournament in Trackmania 2

[Ravious]

Ubisoft is promoting Canyon, but also promoting TrackMania by doing so. I clearly prefer to see TrackMania² Canyon being at the Dreamhack for promotion than any other game. Nations is not driving revenues, because it is free. It is clearly positive for audience and eSport, and this is how and why we did it free, but Canyon is a paying game, and it comes with it's advantages.

I think this is the most brilliant set of letters in this thread. Nadeo (and Ubisoft) need to make money. People set in the eSport community have to start there. As a business, it is logical for Nadeo (and Ubisoft) to put limited resources into areas that will promote return or growth. Is this so hard to understand?

I guess if I were an eSport player I would want to be helping Nadeo make the best game possible for TM2:Canyon instead of sitting down like a donkey in the road. I would want to work with Nadeo to figure out ways to promote both the F2P Nations and P2P Canyon because if Nadeo (and Ubisoft) wins, then so do we. It seems silly to fight against change so hard, when as a business, it is inevitable.

Im just frightend, like Frostbeule, if the community will split and TM isnt supported enough to live for a longer time .

The community will split. You can't stop that. However, because both games are by Nadeo you can actually figure out ways to keep both communities on or around the same page. This is much different than if EA had created THE racing eSport game, which pulled apart the Nations community.

[FrostBeule]

Ubisoft is promoting Canyon, but also promoting TrackMania by doing so. I clearly prefer to see TrackMania² Canyon being at the Dreamhack for promotion than any other game. Nations is not driving revenues, because it is free. It is clearly positive for audience and eSport, and this is how and why we did it free, but Canyon is a paying game, and it comes with it's advantages.

I think this is the most brilliant set of letters in this thread. Nadeo (and Ubisoft) need to make money. People set in the eSport community have to start there. As a business, it is logical for Nadeo (and Ubisoft) to put limited resources into areas that will promote return or growth. Is this so hard to understand?

I guess if I were an eSport player I would want to be helping Nadeo make the best game possible for TM2:Canyon instead of sitting down like a donkey in the road. I would want to work with Nadeo to figure out ways to promote both the F2P Nations and P2P Canyon because if Nadeo (and Ubisoft) wins, then so do we. It seems silly to fight against change so hard, when as a business, it is inevitable.

jesus, OF COURSE they should promote their game! it's not about that. it's about how and in what way they are doing it...

[Ravious]

jesus, OF COURSE they should promote their game! it's not about that. it's about how and in what way they are doing it...

Yeah, I get that. They are doing it at the cost of promoting Nations because (a) Nadeo/Ubisoft are not charities and have to make money, and (b) they feel that this will make them more money. They do not have infinite resources, and Nations is not making them very much money any longer!

[tcq]

Why do you compare TM2 with NFS? Then you need to compare TMN also to NFS, because there seems to be not such big differences, except the new creative possibilities and of course the new graphics (which look awesome imo).

For example destroy the car ... I dont know if you destroyed your car in TMN, also the car is more looking like NFS or maybe Coast but that was TMU not TMN

This should be only an visual damage and should not affect the physics. And the better car looking comes through the new graphics engine, so it's only natural that it will look more like modern games. Nothing bad bout it

You just guess after watching screens and saying "bah this does not look like stadium, it must be shit".
Think about it.

I dont watching screens I talk about them. Also I will buy TM 2 and play it, but with the infos I play it sometimes. Im on the way to professional in TM and the ESL forms a new Speedsection. I dont know how the physiks are or the community, but Im not worried of that, cause I think Florent do his work as well as possible.
Im just frightend, like Frostbeule, if the community will split and TM isnt supported enough to live for a longer time

This could happen, but would simply show how less the tmn players care about trackmania as a whole. It's the same Ravious is pointing at and i simply hope it TM2 will be a great success.

[FrostBeule]

jesus, OF COURSE they should promote their game! it's not about that. it's about how and in what way they are doing it...

Yeah, I get that. They are doing it at the cost of promoting Nations because (a) Nadeo/Ubisoft are not charities and have to make money, and (b) they feel that this will make them more money. They do not have infinite resources, and Nations is not making them very much money any longer!

no, if they were promoting Nations aswell as Canyon, they would have had a Nations tournament at dreamhack as the main esports thing, and have canyon as a side thing that people can try out. it doesn't make any sense to hold this kind of tournament in Canyon with this kind of money. i don't think Canyon will be an esports game (in the sense of events, teams and sponsors), but it will certainly be a very awesome casual game. and what do you mean Nations doesn't make them any money? it's because of Nations that they get United copies sold!

[wiidesire-2]

oh this is a hot discussion here


I think Frostbeule is worried, that Trackmania 2 will kill the Trackmania nations, because Florent want Trackmania 2 to be an esport title. ( Frostbeule knows that Trackmania 2 has better graphics, visual damage... , so sponsors could leave nations and go to tm2)

BUT

frostbeule you are a little bit overreacting. This tournament just want to say ,, Trackmania 2 is coming´´, so that doesn't destroy Trackmania Nations.

The differents between Nations and Tm2 is that nations came to esports after years and tm2 should start with esport right at the beginning ( what I thought? ).
In my opinion Nadeo should relax with Trackmania 2, because the sponsors and other things will come automatically, if the game is good and also compatible with esport, like Nations did it.

Frostbeule I understand your matter and worries, that Nations community will be destroyed, but you really overreact. I mean it's not like Florent made a event, which goes over 12 month and all over the world. It's just a promotion tournament for gamers and sponsors to say ,, Trackmania 2 is here´´ as I said above.

And even if Trackmania 2 will come to esport/ popular, then nobody said everyone is leaving Trackmania Nations for Trackmania 2. It's just a new game apart from Trackmania Nations.

I hope ( and I know it a bit) that Florent has the experience over the years to make the right decision how to include Trackmania 2 Canyon without ,,killing´´ Trackmania nations.


Sincerely,

Max

[Knutselmaaster]

i'm not saying it's gonna be shit. im just saying it's not gonna be stadium. it's not just about the psysics that make stadium so good for esports. it's the whole package. i understand that as a TMUF player it's natural to just move on to the next env and the next psycics. but it's not like that for me. i play TMNF as a competitive game, i don't want it to change. it's like saying a football player should suddenly move over to playing handball or something. i will definitely buy TM2 as ive said before, and play it for fun, but i don't want to compete in it, because it's not gonna be Stadium. it's not football.

Ah, now i get your point, thanks for explaining that.
The football comparison is really great.
Still, even in football rules have changed every now and then, even when (some) people opposed to it.
And there, people did not have a choice than to adapt the new rules, nobody plays with the old rules anymore.

In TM, you don't have to change, that is a difference, you can still play old versions.
I remember similar protests when TMNF came, a lot of the more serious racers complained that nations was better, forever was full of bugs etc, and that they'll never switch. Nadeo promised to keep the TMN master server alive for these people, and as far as i know it still is.
But most of the players moved on to Forever anyway, some after a very long time.
Nations servers are almost empty (i looked a few months ago) and there is no big competition anymore.
That is the way things go in computers, it is a fast moving world.
There are still pong competitions, tetris competitions etc, but it is just a happy few playing them, and those who play generally say "all new games are sh*t, this is pure gaming"
The world moves on, and every change can be seen as bad, because we loose something we love, but we might also get something better in the place, and mustn't forget that.
For myself, i keep my TMF servers and team alive as long as there is interest for it, and will open TM² equivalents at the same time.
Only time can tell how long this will be the case.

[eyebo]

Awesome post Knutselmaaster. Pleasure to read. Well have fun with the thread, I'm out for the rest of the week/weekend. I'll probably have 50 pages to read when I get back.

[fishmac]

New Rules are often
You play rounds instead of TA.
TM 2 is something new youre right, but its called Trackmania 2 and not Race Driver for example, so the part of Trackmania is in it

I think Trackmania was Stadium mostly and TM 2 need something out of that. Thats my opinion.

[Hylis]

Im just frightend, like Frostbeule, if the community will split and TM isnt supported enough to live for a longer time .

The community will split. You can't stop that. However, because both games are by Nadeo you can actually figure out ways to keep both communities on or around the same page.

I think that the fear makes the barrier and the split. See all TrackMania as one community, and you can't think of a split. Otherwise, you can always split: dirt/speed, ET Portal/ESL, team/solo etc.

But if you carefully look, FB is #1 and it is totally understandable that he would like Stadium to stay #1 environment. I have nothing against that, but my main focus is to make the funniest games as possible and compatible with the best competition as possible. We have supported eSport a lot for Nations and we may now bring more people to play eSport on ManiaPlanet. It is logical. Otherwise, it means we should stop right now all development made for eSport, which would mean that we create a good place for other games to come instead of us. It is not a problem, but since I like eSport and the spirit of it, it would be sad for me.

have a nice week end Eyebo ^_^