Maniaplanet Forum

Smigles, calling TMN players kiddies, you follow a counter-productive way, i'm affraid. Nadeo might have tried to seduce TMN players too, and it could be a good choice since they are most of the TM players now. Nevertheless, Nadeo already changed its strategy if we trust in what they say about Valley (a gameplay that herits from Coast and Rally), which might not please TMN keyboarders... I wouldn't say they abandoned us, although they're clearly trying to please so much different expectations that it's almost impossible.

If they really wanted to get only the TMN players, they would have only made stadium² for TM², and no other environments/gameplays, since stadium players don't need neither want them. I understand the Canyon creation as a try to gather both communities (TMN and TMU), that might have been both too TMU-ish for most TMN players and too TMN-ish for most TMU ones. For me, it means they want to still be able to create new environments and gameplays, and it's a good sign that you can't call "TMN-ish". The problem to deal with will be how to balance the importance of environments, given that stadium has already a huge community of fans and other ones will start from zero... And when they'll face this problem, they'll realize soon that having specific servers for each environments divides the community and prevents the players to discover new environments... They'll have to make a choice. If they don't chose the cross-environments servers they'll immure forever the "non-stadium" environments in a restricted circle. We can't be sure they'll make the good choice, but we can't claim the opposite more.

Furthermore, they seem really in a rush with SM and i've been told they're that much in a hurry that they don't have time to think. Not a good news, but a circumstance that should lead us to not be that harsch.

Your opinion about Canyon being left by the players that come back to United is true about the league players (we can clearly see this effect seing the number of registrations in ET tournaments). But it doesn't take into account the loads of lol-map, ladder and mini-maps players. They came from TMN, sticked on Canyon and represents now most of the Canyon players. All in all, there are still more players in Canyon than United, although very few of them have your (and my) gaming style. In United almost all the teams played leagues, while the tournaments players were a small minority in Stadium, it seems Canyon follow stadium in that way. I am sad to see this because i really believe our "old" way of gaming was a more complete and interesting experience... But we can't force the players to have good tastes... It's like the industrial food replacing the traditional one... And nadeo is not more responsible for that than the server admins that put draft/silly/lol-maps on their servers, the players that join the most crowded server even if it's a lower end one, and us tournament organizers sucking at communication and advertisement.

Smigles, perhaps you did not notice it, but I am also very interested in multiple environment servers, I'm definitely not against it. I am patient and I will not wait being upset until they are really there, I will enjoy what is there actually.

The thing is not what you want, this we certainly have understood very well
It is rather the way how you are claiming it.

You seem to forget that it is not anymore TMUF, it is ManiaPlanet. Something new that has just started its evolution.
You are not the community you claim to speak for. And you can't dictate Nadeo what to do.
Is it not you and also not me who really decide about what will be implemented and when, it is their own decision.
A lot is based on Hylis ideas, a lot is based on internal tests at Nadeo (we only see a very small consolidated output), and also many things are based on the feedback of the players.
There is a TrackMania Priorities thread started by Hylis in case you didn't notice
He already wrote that this (multiple environment servers) is on his list of things to do, but he also clearly stated that first comes ShootMania, then the so long awaited environments Valley and Stadium, and then it depends.
He only did not promise.

They are aware of much more things than you can figure, but they just can't work on everything at the same time for everyone.
Let them please do their job
They are paid for, and they will only do something extra if we give constructive feedback (and of course also buy the games to prove we still support them).

But to say like you seem to do "ManiaPlanet is crap because it is not like TMUF"... I don't know if it is really the right way to tell it to Nadeo

If you can't wait... it is your personal problem, right?
Please don't hinder and don't blame other players you still want to drive Canyon or Valley or Stadium on single title servers. They will certainly enjoy it.
But the question is: can you forget your grief, and can you enjoy as well?

I definitely think we need multiple environment servers this is what made the game so fun for me, The idea of just playing one enviro for more then 6 races makes me bored. I hope nadeo listens and in the future we will be playing on multiple enviro servers I also heard rumors that stadium may be free, I think if you are going to do this it would be better if you made them buy 1 or 2 other enviros and then give them stadium for free this would help out nadeo and the TM2 community at the same time just a idea!

TMarc wrote:The thing is not what you want, this we certainly have understood very well
It is rather the way how you are claiming it.

2+2=4, no matter how I say it. I can say "2+2=4, asshole" and I am still right.

TMarc wrote:You seem to forget that it is not anymore TMUF, it is ManiaPlanet. Something new that has just started its evolution.

MP is allready more than a year old. Most games should be out of Alpha by that time...

TMarc wrote:There is a TrackMania Priorities thread started by Hylis in case you didn't notice
He already wrote that this (multiple environment servers) is on his list of things to do, but he also clearly stated that first comes ShootMania, then the so long awaited environments Valley and Stadium, and then it depends.
He only did not promise.

So he has his priorities totaly wrong. Does not make me feel any better.

TMarc wrote:Let them please do their job

If only they would do it properly...



I mean seriously... Were you only able to play one enviroment per server in TMO ? TMS ? TMU ? THe only TM version that ever got one car per server was the cheap demo-enviroment that was stadium.

eyebo wrote: I don't see why it would be such a hard thing to implement something similar in TM2, automatically filtering out the servers from the titles that you don't own.

ESPECIALY since this is certainly a feature that they had in mind from the beginning. I remember very early anouncements where they said that you can even go from a canyon map to a shootmania map. So they clearly had it in mind.

The fact that it is not here yet shows that they either have HUGE technical problems with the implementation or that the coders dont listen to the guy who does the planning. Either way is a bad sign, Bad bad bad. But I said enugh about that in my other thread, didnt I... Not that we ever got a response there. It's like that part of the forum does not exist for Hylis...

zarexz wrote: EDIT²: Oh heck, there will only be stadium servers when that comes out anyway.

I think that's what tey plan for anyway. Why bother with the TMU players Main priority is for them to please their main market.

Oh the times when publishers actualy released FINISHED games. Long gone, arent they ? Now it's just throwing something on the market that has a few of the announced key features and at least one enviroment for the main fan base, and the rest can suck it.

My worry about all this is that by the time that they get round to making a multi-enviro server, that people will have already have got annoyed about the current set up and given up playing.

Smigles wrote:Oh the times when publishers actualy released FINISHED games. Long gone, arent they ? Now it's just throwing something on the market that has a few of the announced key features and at least one enviroment for the main fan base, and the rest can suck it.

It may seem that way, but people forget that Nadeo is not your typical Development Team. They don't have hundreds of people working on projects like most companies do and as a result it may take a little longer to get things right but the finished product (IMO) will have more content in it that players want.

Smigles wrote:I think that's what tey plan for anyway. Why bother with the TMU players Main priority is for them to please their main market.

You could also think; If they can port stadium to TM² they sure can with the 6 other envis. Problem is time/manpower on the Nadeo side and our impatience

Smigles,

Hylis talked about multi-environment servers several times in this forum, and he posted here just recently when the open beta of sm started. I also linked to and/or quoted his posts about multi-environment servers in your topic. For now, there's not even multiple TM2 environments available. It's not too early to express our concern/curiosity about what is to come and express how much multi-environment servers mean to us... but I'd say it's way too soon to start complaining about something that doesn't even make sense to have right now.

Smigles wrote:2+2=4, no matter how I say it. I can say "2+2=4, asshole" and I am still right.

If it really doesn't matter, then it would be much more efficient to spare all unnecessary offending and time wasting words, don't you think!?

Smigles wrote:

TMarc wrote:You seem to forget that it is not anymore TMUF, it is ManiaPlanet. Something new that has just started its evolution.

MP is allready more than a year old. Most games should be out of Alpha by that time...

So what? ManiaPlanet is not made of stone, and we can be thankful for that.
Many other games were released in the past and will be released in the future without any further modification or improvement.
Nadeo decided to make modifications, so let them do them, even if it means we encounter some issues with Canyon.
Later it will be all good (hopefully ).
They already admitted that Canyon was released a bit to early. So if MP1 was Alpha, now we have still Beta
We all should be happy that new TM² titles will be released this year already and not QM titles first
Besides this I would not want to have to install dozens of parallel ManiaPlanets only because I want to play those dozen titles.

Smigles wrote:

TMarc wrote:There is a TrackMania Priorities thread started by Hylis in case you didn't notice
He already wrote that this (multiple environment servers) is on his list of things to do, but he also clearly stated that first comes ShootMania, then the so long awaited environments Valley and Stadium, and then it depends.
He only did not promise.

So he has his priorities totaly wrong. Does not make me feel any better.

His priorities are certainly more right and more substanciated than your personal priorities.
That priorites don't match all the time is normal, and nothing to be frustred or upset about like you seem to be.
It's only a game
It is always much easier to criticise than to try to understand the things behind.

This topic and a few others regarding multi-env-servers (there is one in nearly every language) are a reminder for Nadeo that they don't forget it.
But they will also not forget how the community is asking for features or commenting them!

You're asking for one special feature. But all the others are also asking, for many other features.
We only see a product, but we don't see what is happening during the development.
Try to think as if you were at their place at Nadeo... could you really do it better?
Who decides on the priority? Who can work on it? Who will really need it? And finally, who will pay for it?
There are many constraints, many decisions.
Not all are popular, but you can be sure Nadeo wants to achieve the best for the community,
even if they don't match this target always at first.
Some things take longer, some things get fixed really quickly.

Smigles wrote:Let them please do their job

If only they would do it properly...[/quote]
Then I recommend you even more to let them finish it,
instead of judging based on a obviously unfinished product...

Smigles wrote:I mean seriously... Were you only able to play one enviroment per server in TMO ? TMS ? TMU ? THe only TM version that ever got one car per server was the cheap demo-enviroment that was stadium.

Please don't turn the point around.
There were single environment servers indeed as well then, if the server administrators chose to have only maps of one environment. So where is the matter?
Not everyone wants to drive on all environments. Some want distraction, some want to concentrate.
It is the freedom and the multiplicity that makes it out.
And that multi environment servers don't exist yet for TrackMania² is simply due to the fact that there is only one title actually, and that it was not judged necessary to spend development time on multi-environment severs yet.
As soon as Stadium and Valley are out, and other ShootMania titles, the community will certainly ask even more for servers that allow to switch titles.
So the question for multiple or cross environment servers is not be only a matter for TM², but for the whole ManiaPlanet system!
It is just not yet on the most prior things to work on, but it was also not totally excluded, in contrast to unlimiter like features for example.

Please accept Nadeo is working full speed on ShootMania at the moment.
If you don't care of it, then you have to wait some more time anyways,
and there is absolutely nothing you can do here else than to keep calm and be patient.
And bad words will definitely not help at all but make it all worse.