Beta 3 RC1 laser tests

[MuNgLo]

Us CMCs tried to make a test last night, but we couldn't find 2 guys willing to join us..

The idea of having a stun weapon (change the colour and density of the rail to differentiate it) could work really well.
Obviously it would be a waste for more than one on the team to have such a weapon, but a team with a "cooller" who has insane accuracy, could create strategies where the railer stuns the attacker, and the two other defenders spam him with rockets.

I don't think this would work on all maps (the map structure for a successful gameplay such as this would have to change), but imagine on castle, if the guy by the pole stuns the attacker, while one defender on the left and one on the right spam him. It's easier to hit, if he doesn't have stamina, but the attacker can stick pick them off if they aren't careful.

Nucleus would still have to be nerfed though (no half-reload for last 15 seconds maybe).

This could lead to more "balanced" gameplay in the way players are describing the lack of balance, but I wonder if it would maybe ruin the flow/speed of the game, thus making it less fun.

Stun might be fun thing to actually test. Even thou I came up with it I'm still very sceptic to it.
Thing is that the +0 would get a new use to protect yourself from spam which might be fun, both to play and watch. But the specifics of amount and so on is hard to speculate about.

I'm with you on last point. That's been my stance from the start really. Nerfing by adding to reloadspeed makes the game slower and less fun. If the idea is to keep the game fast and dynamic then you can't nerf reload to oblivion. It really isn't about balance. if a game is fun enough people do play it even if it's unbalanced.
Due to its uneven multiplayer the game has an inherit of center balance. That's the point of choosing the best attacker as starter. Attacking is harder. The goal should not be to try to balance this imo since it opens up for players of different style to still be able to play together. Some better with rockets on defence and some might be insanely good attacker. Sadly that point is one of many watered down due to the drift to wl9 instead of wl6.

But anyways. The question I feel needs to be answered is what you guys at Nadeo really have as goal for the Elite mode. I was always under the impression that it would be esport at its cleanest and barebone form really. Thus attracting many players from many other games with skills that easily make the transition.
Also are you trying to balance it so all skills equal a turn would have 50/50 even though there is 1 player against 3.
Not really the thread for t and sorry about that. Kinda drifted away there.
I'll go away now.

[v3rdi]

i know i have been crying alot but its only because i care about the game and i want the best for it. elite should be classic like it was in 1.3 or 2.0 (w/o them buggs) not to complicated it was fun to cast now its getting boring and realy .. hard to play since ... yeh its just no fun..


seriously it would be stun -> down EZ there will be more or less just rushing taccs than. i mean come on ... the movement is the only thing the att got and if you take it away ... you will have all the GOOD teams getting 1 rail off to you and bam your done.

you ever played competatively? (you cmc guys do i know) but good teams have insane rails and good teams already gang you up when you miss a rail. now imagine that with a stun rail your stunned and done for it.

the esport idea for elite was (for me) the most simple game. and never touch a running system. atm its realy just shit (sorry for teh word but it is) the nucl is op in def and its sooo boring since WHO THE FOOK CARES IF I CAN SEE THE RAIL GUNNER AS DEF? its just mindlessly throwen into the community with the expression "let them fix /handle the problem"

atm shootmania evolves into a sandbox testing ground for manny "gamish" aspects to have ideas for own games.
there are more and much better support for the lvl editors than for the bugs them self (again refering server slot bug/ enter passowrd crash bug/ and manny others wich i just dont want to repeat)

with the quote "maybe i like the editors more cuz they dont flame" yes thats what nadeo guys say (w/o thinking LOL) they will probably loose the community since there c an be manny mapbuilders but where are the people who play the maps then? AWESOME LETS ALL BUILD MAPS CUZ THERE IS BETTER SUPPORT

w/o the playing group there will be no need for editors FACE IT!

again i dont mean any offence i just want to give my 2 cents.

[Zell]

you ever played competatively? (you cmc guys do i know) but good teams have insane rails and good teams already gang you up when you miss a rail. now imagine that with a stun rail your stunned and done for it.

Yes, but a defender with a stun weapon can only stun the attacker - not remove armour points.
So if you think about it, it's even better because you would get rushed by 2, instead of 3 defenders.

And yes, I've played against the top teams, so I know that on some maps, if you're stuck in a certain place, they will effectively rush you and there is nothing you can do to survive.
If you have the stun weapon, maps will be created with that in mind, so the attacker will be able to choose his path; and in the event that he gets stunned, he can still shoot defenders, and 2 is easier than 3.

As Munglo said, this could add a lot of value to +0, and make it more fun for specs. There are quite a few players who are already good at shooting down a storm of rockets, so why not everyone else?

[v3rdi]

you ever played competatively? (you cmc guys do i know) but good teams have insane rails and good teams already gang you up when you miss a rail. now imagine that with a stun rail your stunned and done for it.

Yes, but a defender with a stun weapon can only stun the attacker - not remove armour points.
So if you think about it, it's even better because you would get rushed by 2, instead of 3 defenders.

And yes, I've played against the top teams, so I know that on some maps, if you're stuck in a certain place, they will effectively rush you and there is nothing you can do to survive.
If you have the stun weapon, maps will be created with that in mind, so the attacker will be able to choose his path; and in the event that he gets stunned, he can still shoot defenders, and 2 is easier than 3.

As Munglo said, this could add a lot of value to +0, and make it more fun for specs. There are quite a few players who are already good at shooting down a storm of rockets, so why not everyone else?

i realy dont want to piss you off or what so ever

but stun gun = no armor thats for clear. now lets do SIMPLE MATH just realy SIMPLE MATH how much defenders do you need to take down the att? actually just 1 cuz 4 rockets COULD BE 4 hits

now 1 stunned att vs 2 def with 4 rockets makes EASY 8 rockets placed in the FACE of the att ...

again more easy 2 * 4 = 8 = 8friends who run faster than you and YES OH YOUR STUNNED! you yourself know how that that can go!

and please dont be that naive even if the stunned att can still shoot you know your self that good def spam is soo well placed you just see the deff for a split second but you cant dodge the rockets all at once .... so still 8 rockets coming from everywhere. i dont know if i make my self clear enough. but you played vs top teams you realy have a hard time to pin down the def and now imagine you get stunned you dont get the chance to shoot the damn defenders you just get the rockets in your face..

[MuNgLo]

Stun would probably only work if it worked something like locking the attackers movement for .2 seconds or something. Not a complete stop and freeze. Say it would be like releasing W and holding S for a short moment.
Stronger then that, like solid freeze would be unplayable.
This to me goes without saying but seems people see the word stun and thinks total freeze in the range of seconds.
But it would be extremely dependent on balancing the +0 timing rule and defender stunlaser reloadtime.

Still I say it's a bad idea from the start to have any laser in defence.

[Zell]

This to me goes without saying but seems people see the word stun and thinks total freeze in the range of seconds.
But it would be extremely dependent on balancing the +0 timing rule and defender stunlaser reloadtime.
.

Exactly. Maybe stun could mean removing stamina - BAM you are walking instead of running and don't have stamina - or like Munglo said, stopping for a fraction of a second. I was thinking maybe even 1 second.

I agree with your point verdi, but at the same time, this could be easier on the attacker than a defender with proper laser.
Perhaps this could be used as a way to deny last second pole captures if the attacker didn't manage to pick off any defenders. It could also make for lol moments if the attacker is trying to jump somewhere and gets stunned xD
But ok, I guess most would just find that annoying...

I don't think Hylis will accept the argument of "remove laser completely" just like that, so it's better to try find alternatives. Maybe the point is to have more variety in defence? Then stun gun could fulfill that while not being too OP.

[maiiden]

i guess stunning the attacker is not a good idea, because it takes the speed and with that the fun out of the game. mybe the laser of the defender do an other job as stunning the attacker, maybe a hit by a deflaser increase the reloadtime for the next shoot of the attacker or something else, lets think about it!

[fleo]

I like the idea of changing the function or the defender's railgun but I agree on the fact it could decrease dynamic in the game and that's not what we want.
Another idea would be to disable the attacker's laser for a short moment when he's hit by a defender's laser.
Again, we would have to find the good settings (disabled for how long? Obviously depending of the defender's laser reloading time) to make it the most enjoyable possible.

Don't forget it's a brainstorm, so finding ideas is more important than giving opinion on them for now, let's use our imagination!

[MuNgLo]

This to me goes without saying but seems people see the word stun and thinks total freeze in the range of seconds.
But it would be extremely dependent on balancing the +0 timing rule and defender stunlaser reloadtime.
.

Exactly. Maybe stun could mean removing stamina - BAM you are walking instead of running and don't have stamina - or like Munglo said, stopping for a fraction of a second. I was thinking maybe even 1 second.

I agree with your point verdi, but at the same time, this could be easier on the attacker than a defender with proper laser.
Perhaps this could be used as a way to deny last second pole captures if the attacker didn't manage to pick off any defenders. It could also make for lol moments if the attacker is trying to jump somewhere and gets stunned xD
But ok, I guess most would just find that annoying...

I don't think Hylis will accept the argument of "remove laser completely" just like that, so it's better to try find alternatives. Maybe the point is to have more variety in defence? Then stun gun could fulfill that while not being too OP.

The problem is that without removing the laser we are still just discussing ways to build a new gameplay that really isn't Elite. Which would be fine if that was the point but I hope it's not. Elite was a good esport-title as it was in beta2. Sure it needs tweaks and updates and all that but to throw in what essentially is a movable laserpad will just result in slower gameplay that isn't as fun. Also not consistent with what Elite stands for for most players.
Sure there might be ways to use a laser on defence. Probably only with some huge changes like AP balance, hit effects and so on but anyway you do it you will still end up with a hitscan weapon on defence which will slow down the attacker. Unless you go mad and make some strange gun effect.
The point is that whatever you end up with will not be Elite.

[v3rdi]

keep elite classic and make a new pack called "elite screwup for fun" or something like that since elite was good as it was before. 2.0 elite -> good! leave it be.

NEVER TOUCH A RUNNING SYSTEM probably never hered that one...